These videos were shot with an iPhone and edited with Adobe After Effects and Adobe Premiere.
I created the lower third super in Adobe Photoshop and animated with Adobe After Effects.
Episode 2, What Lee Bowers saw from the railroad tower:
The opening and closing motion graphics were created with Adobe Photoshop and Adobe After Effects.
Episode 3, the actual Lee Bowers crash site:
Episode 4:
Episode 5:
These videos were written by Canadian author Fred Litwin as a satire on the numerous conspiracy theories about the assassination oh President John F. Kennedy on November 22, 1963.
On The Trail of Delusion, Episode 23, Daniel Evans
Lifelong JFK Assassination researcher and Dallas area Tour guide Dan Evans tells Fred Litwin about his journey into JFKA obsession and what he tells visitors what he thinks about Conspiracy Theories.
The night before the assassination Oswald came home with his co-worker from the depository, Wesley Buell Frasier. It was thursday november 21st.
Oswald never visited Marina on Thursdays . He always came home on friday The reason he came home on Thursday was to ostensibly try and woo Marina back into moving in with him. Oswald even told her that ” if you agree to come back with me i will get an apartment in dallas tomorrow” Marina rebuffed him.
It’s believed at that point of course Oswald went to his other option which was to retrieve his gun. Probably around 9:00 or so, it’s believed oswald went into the garage to fetch his rifle. Let’s go in. It was kept in a blanket similar to this one This is not the the exact blanket of course but a blanket similar to that oswald’s rifle was disassembled in at the book depository the brown wrapping paper bag to conceal that
So he came into the garage here took the pieces of the rifle out of the blanket. Slipped them into the bag After that he probably left the package in here Some historians think it probably would have been too risky for Oswald to bring the package into the house. There was no reason to he could easily retrieve it and more safely retrieve it the next morning. Now Oswald went to bed before Marina did She finished some house chores then took a long bath went to bed with oswald It was her belief that oswald was still awake at one point She touched his leg he shoved her leg away apparently the next morning on the bedstand as you can see here this is a replica of the china cup that Marina brought with her from the soviet union . According to her, Oswald that morning placed his wedding ring and approximately $187. He told marina then that she could use the money to buy the washing machine that she wanted. Oswald then went into the garage, according to the official version of events, picked up his rifle and then walked down the block to Wesley Buell Fraziers house So Oswald retrieved his rifle from the garage walked not too far about a block down west fifth street this is where we are crossed the corner of west fifth and westbrook came here to the home of his workmate Wesley Buell Fraziers Oswald came here with his package stood outside the garage
Here this window is the kitchen of the Randall home. Linnie Mae Randall was doing the dishes in front of the sink. She later testified that she looked out the window saw Lee harvey oswald with the long package.
Countdown to Dallas, Episode 5, Was the Parade Route changed?
One claim of conspiracy theorists is that the motorcade route was deliberately moved to ensure that the Presidents car went down Elm street (underneath the depository) instead of Main Street
Here, as you can see, that is not possible, because of the concrete abuttment between the two streets
This is Main Street here,. Over here is Elm Street
Today, as in 1963, it is physically impossible to do that.
The only way to get to Stemmons freeway to the Trade Mart again was to go down Elm Street.
And now you know the rest of the story.
More stories on the assassination, and the events leading up to it,
in my latest book,
Countdown to Dallas,
Available everywhere books are sold.
There is also a Countdown to Dallas Podcast produced by Evergreen Podcasting that is also available everywhere
One claim that conspiracists often make about the Kennedy Assassination is that a second person was spotted on the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository minutes before the shooting proof, they claim, of a conspiracy
I’m Paul Brandus, author of Countdown to Dallas, and just minutes before the shooting there was indeed a second person on the sixth floor just steps from Lee Harvey Oswald and his sniper’s perch.
but this does not mean there was a conspiracy
Here now the rest of the story:
Around 5 minutes to 12 the Kennedy motorcade was underway headed for downtown Dallas.
At the depository, employees excited that the President would soon pass by, knocked off early for lunch.
as he was heading downstairs one employee Bonnie Ray Williams said he saw Oswald
at the depository employees excited that the president would soon pass by knocked off early for lunch as he was heading downstairs one employee Bonnie Ray Williams said he saw Oswald on the fifth or sixth floor he wasn’t sure which but moments later another employee Charles Given went to the sixth floor to get his cigarettes there he saw Oswald they had a brief conversation
Given said “Aren’t you going downstairs it’s near lunchtime.” Oswald “No sir.” Given left now minutes after that brief encounter Bonnie Ray Williams also returned to the sixth floor “why?” “To watch the presidential motorcade.”
At the time everyone was talking like they was going to watch from the sixth floor Williams testified and while he waited for his buddies Williams ate his lunch a chicken sandwich and bottle of Dr pepper he remembers sitting in front of the third or fourth window Williams recalled quote “I couldn’t see too much of the sixth floor because the books at this time were stacked so high if there was anyone else up there on the sixth floor,” Williams neither saw nor heard anyone now here’s where it gets interesting down on Houston Street a young man Arnold Roland was standing with his wife Barbara looking around his eyes drifted up to the sixth floor of the depository there in the corner window he saw a man holding a rifle with a telescopic site roland assumed that this was a Secret Service agent there to protect the president so it never occurred to him to point this man out to a nearby police officer but Oswald was not the only person Roland saw on the sixth floor his wandering eye also saw what he described as ” a colored man a few windows away” this was Bonnie Ray Williams eating his lunch now the other guys that he was going to watch the parade with James Garman and Harold Norman were their names had earlier been down on the sidewalk but decided the view would be better from the fifth floor of the depository why the fifth floor? because the sixth floor here shown that day was a jungle of boxes by now as Garman recalled it’s between 12:20 and 12:25 just minutes before the assassination they were soon joined by Williams who had finished his lunch leaving this greasy bag and empty soda bottle near the window bonnie Ray Williams had been so close to Oswald while he ate that police and the media later thought the garbage had been Oswald’s a month after the assassination this book published by United Press International and American Heritage repeated this mistake writing in the caption quote “The sniper had dined on fried chicken and pop while waiting patiently to shoot the president.” One report said “Wrong.” But it does show just how close how tantalizingly close Bonnie Ray Williams sat to the man who was about to murder the president this proximity helps explain why two other men on the street here at the southwest corner of Houston and Elm saw Oswald sitting perfectly still their names Bob Edwards and Ronald Fiser moments before the motorcade appeared Edwards spotting Oswald told Fiser quote “Look at that guy there in that window he looks like he’s uncomfortable.” Were words to that effect fischer chimed in quote “This man held my attention for 10 or 15 seconds all the time I watched him he never moved his head he never moved anything just was there transfixed he looked to be 22 or 24 years old.” It’s likely that Oswald who was 24 never moved because Bonnie Ray Williams as we’ve established was just feet away eating his lunch meanwhile Oswald was also seen by yet another man who sat here tantalizingly close to the window his name was Howard Brennan here’s Brennan at that spot in a recreation of November 22nd he saw Oswald in the sixth floor window right above James Gar Harold Norman and Bonnie Ray Williams who had by now joined his buddies on the fifth floor “I saw this man on the sixth floor,” Brennan later testified he added “There was no other person on that floor that ever came to the window that I noticed there were people on the next floor down which is the fifth floor colored guys.” The time frame here is about 12:22 which lines up with the Williams testimony Brennan could give exact times because from his vantage point he could see the big clock the famous Hertz sign that in 1963 stood on the roof of the depository now let’s go back to Ronald Fiser about 30 seconds before the shooting 30 seconds fischer looked up again an affidavit he gave to Dallas police that very day said “I looked up at the window and noticed that he seemed to be laying down or in a funny position anyway because all I could see was his head.” When the presidential car turned left onto Elm Street there was but one person on the sixth floor here in the southeast corner window not two as some conspirators have alleged and now you know the rest of the story more stories on the assassination and the events leading up to it in my latest book Countdown to Dallas available everywhere books are sold there’s also a Countdown to Dallas podcast produced by Evergreen Podcasting that is also available everywhere
The President’s car is now turning on to Elm Street and it will be only a matter of minutes before he arrives at the trademark
[Music] On October 14th, 1963 Lee Harvey Oswald applied and got a job at a place called the Texas School Book Depository
Here’s how it looked at the time A nondescript red brick building perched on the southeast corner of Houston and Elm Streets It offered a magnificent view of a place called Daily Plaza. Here’s the building today Now the question of just how Oswald got the job just 5 weeks before President Kennedy’s motorcade drove right by has been a longstanding question for those studying the assassination Some think it’s fishy Surely they say proof of a conspiracy I’m Paul Brandus a longtime White House-based journalist speaker at seven presidential libraries My latest is Countdown to Dallas. In Countdown to Dallas I tell the rest of the story about Oswald and the depository And for one surprising twist you might not know about stick around to the end of this short video That mid-October 1963 story starts here in the Dallas suburb of Irving where Oswald’s wife Marina and their 21-month-old daughter June were living with a woman named Ruth Payne. Marina was also days away from giving birth to her second daughter Marina the young Soviet
Immigrants a woman she met through the local immigrants
Marina was the victim of spousal abuse Lee was a wifebeater hitting Marina on a regular basis Ruth who wanted to improve her Russian took Marina in
That’s the backdrop Oswald living on his own was also unemployed He had just gotten back from Mexico City after a futile effort to get a visa to travel to Cuba He needed a job badly On the 14th Ruth Marina and some other women in the neighborhood were having coffee and the subject of Lee’s unemployment came up Oswald had several job prospects One was at a bakery the other driving a truck but Lee didn’t know how to drive One woman at that coffee Lenny May Randall mentioned that her brother Wesley Bule Frasier had just gotten a job at the Depository in downtown Dallas She thought they might need an extra man Now Marina Oswald’s English was poor Lee did not allow her to learn it So Ruth Payne called the depository and spoke with a boss there His name Roy Truly Truly said yes he could use another man to fill orders for school books Tell Oswald to come down and apply Now you have to remember what a pathetic work record Oswald had. He’d been fired from two jobs in just the past 6 months And a potential third employer checked on a reference who said Oswald was not a good employee Oswald was unwanted His skills were minimal but a menial job filling boxes with books Oswald filled out this job application His address was a lie Said he’d lived in Dallas continuously That was a lie he had just gotten out of the Marines and was honorably discharged Two more lies that he had been on his last job for three years Another lie Five lies on one page It’s a reflection of Lee Harvey Oswald’s habit of lying about well just about everything But unlike other potential employers Roy Truly did not check on any of this It was just a menial job after all So Oswald lucked out So that’s how Oswald got his job at the Depository A group of suburban women having coffee lacking the skills to work in a bakery or drive a truck having poor references that might have resulted in work elsewhere on and on It took a series of small things for this job to work out Now I mentioned one final twist to this story that may surprise you I’ll get to that in a second But it’s also important to remember this When Oswald got the job President Kennedy’s visit to Texas had not been finalized A trip had been announced but the final decision on Dallas would not be made until a month later November 14th when the location for Kennedy speech at the Trademart was set That decision that location was made by none other than Ken O’Donnell the president’s top White House aid The Secret Service had recommended other locations Other parts of town which would have meant different motorcade routes Conspiracy theorists who are sure that Oswald’s job was some kind of setup that he was somehow placed in the depository can never explain how all of these little things unconnected ranging from suburban women having coffee to President Kennedy’s own right-hand man picking that final location occurred And here’s the final twist to this story You might not know that in 1963 the Texas School Book Depository had another location at 1917 North Houston Street. Roy Truly the boss nearly assigned Oswald to that location. Had he done so Lee Harvey Oswald would have been nowhere near Dealey Plaza on the day of the president’s visit. Great tragedies often take a series of small and seemingly unconnected events to occur This was one of them There are other stories to tell about Oswald his life that very different era decades of presidential security and the attitude of numerous presidents towards it And also the science of cognitive dissonance why humans are wired to think and process information and data the way they do and why this fuels the beliefs that so many people have in assorted conspiracy theories Not just the Kennedy assassination but everything from Pearl Harbor to the moon landing to 9/11 even Princess Diana’s car crash The science behind our beliefs that’s also explored All of this and much more can be found in my latest book Countdown to Dallas and in a podcast of the same name Both are available everywhere
Jesus said: “whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.” (Matt. 25:40)
On April 27, 2025, at noon I showed my documentary “The Least of My Brothers” at the RTF Building at San Antonio College. This is the intro before I showed the film, and then I took questions from the students and teachers who showed up.
This is the promo video I made for the event (a re -edit of a much earlier promo)
This is iPhone video of the intro and Question and Answer session after I showed the documentary:
Transcript of the introduction:
Welcome to our kickoff event of the 2025 multicultural conference as part of Fiesta this is a documentary screening of a film called The Least of My Brothers and the filmmaker is here with us today This is Matthew Kordelski He is a graduate of the film program at Rowan University in New Jersey and the 2D animation program at Austin Community College He runs his own production company for films motion graphics animation podcasts and commercial videos He has an animated YouTube channel about dogs I love it It’s very fun Um He spent 5 years researching the murder of Bill Simpson which is what this film is about Bill Simpson was the first African-American to desegregate the sundown town of Vidor Texas He did not find the answers he thought he would find In this documentary he demonstrates that close examination and inquiry often helps us discover that there is more than meets the eye So without further ado Matt Kordelski any questions for our filmmaker today yeah You know it’s funny You and I had earlier a minute ago were talking about Orson Wells And one time Orson Wells was giving a talk and nobody showed up and the announcer said “Orson Wells has done this,he’s done that, he’s done that, he’s been an actor a writer a playwright.” And Orson Wells comes on and goes “I wish there was as many of you as there are of me”
But anyway uh anybody ever heard of the story of Vidor Texas and what happened there you have from me or from Do you heard of it uh no I mean I heard about it when it happened It was a shocking horrific crime in the National Navy Okay Not too far from where I would live at the time Anybody heard of a Sundown Town oh yeah All right A little bit of backstory This was made in the early 1990s In the early 1990s for good or for bad was the golden era of trash media I’m going to say a man’s name that not so long ago if you said this guy’s name in San Antonio you would provoke a riot Howard Stern he was the king of trash radio You remember that okay Um he was the king of trash radio Just there was no rules Whatever you could do to get attention he did it Jerry Springer on TV was the same thing and all these guys They set the bar pretty low in terms of quality but they set the bar pretty high in terms of ratings It was completely insane People you would neve, r have on your TV show Ku Klux Klansmen, Nazis neo-Nazis
and the host did not want to make it a civil discussion They deliberately would get a Klansmen and somebody from Lewis Farrakhan’s group and hoping they’d fight It was insane Now into this environment they decided to desegregate the white housing complex in Vidor Texas not long after that uh an African-American man moved in and then he got tired of the harassment and the day he moved out he was murdered I heard that and I came to a presumption that surely somebody from the clan killed him I spent five years digging and digging and digging I’ll let we’ll talk about this afterwards I did not find the answer I thought he would But the theme of this festival is more than meets the eye Keep an open mind Don’t make a snap judgment on just because that’s a bad guy who’s done a history of bad things Maybe they didn’t do that thing But hey we’ll talk about it afterwards Thank you for coming
Transcript of the Q&A
All right. Thank you for sharing your video
We can now go to a Q&A.
Can you feel like asking the filmmaker?
And I actually want to start if it’s okay.
Yeah.
Anything that’s. You must have had to talk to a lot of residents.
Her? Yes.
Including some pretty despicable racists and others.
Yeah. Yes. So how do you.
That was my first song.
As I was watching this again was.
How do you engage with someone who
you’re totally opposed to in terms of what they stand for?
And you saw the movie documentary to see some of to talk to them.
How do you measure? It was a lot of discipline. I had to try in my usual. I mean, I was talking to Klansmen and I was on phone calls
with neo-Nazis and, you know, racist people, and I promised I’d be fair.
And then I think I was I mean, I couldn’t it would have been the easiest thing
in the world to cut this, to make it look like maybe the Klan did it.
There’s enough circumstantial.
What if I if I could have done that, I promised them I would, and they were kind of looking like rosy.
Yeah. But, yeah, I just get. I need to buy me a little light and start reading about different races, different ethnic groups.
In other questions, friends. I mean, at some point, somebody, one of your one of your sources that you recorded said, well, there’s no violence here against black people. It’s it’s just threats. The threats are pretty bad.
I mean, that’s not but, you know, like to stand on, my true.
It’s not, it’s not. And, if you’re right, it’s like one thing I was surprised, making is, was when I was talking to Bill Haley, somebody got help.
You got trouble for making threats, but they were rather nonsensical threats.
Somebody said, I’m going to get a load of dynamite and blow up the housing complex.
You go up and saying that even though he never had
the dynamite, there’s no evidence he was really going to do this.
But threat of force.
Now, I’m not a lawyer.
I support you, but yeah, you’re right that that’s no excuse.
I mean, pretty frequently that you can’t yell fire in a theater and you can’t threaten to blow up in front of a solid point.
That’s pretty bad, too.
And by other companies, I mean the bad guy here seems to be the media.
You know, the media come in and they’re, you know, how they’re married or whatever.
But it would be better if we heard, like, you know, actual news clips that would substantiate that.
The one sort of negative thing that we have about me is the evidence that we have is the, the, you show the put the plan to I fair harassment and current affairs
and you know and and and they came up empty
and they wouldn’t let me use any of that footage.
But and so, I mean, that’s pretty bad, but, you know, if if the enemy is the media, it seems like we need
to have those headlines or whatever or clips or descriptions,
you know, specific incidences,
the media, you know, pushing a dishonest.
Okay. You’re you’re right about that.
00:02:54:41 – 00:02:59:00 And I, I thought I made the point that I’m not saying there was no racist
00:02:59:00 – 00:03:03:23 so racism or trouble there, but I’m saying that I think the media exaggerated
00:03:03:39 – 00:03:06:07 and that that provide evidence for the media.
00:03:06:07 – 00:03:09:33 Oh, yeah, but I couldn’t I mean, there’s you can argue all day.
00:03:09:50 – 00:03:11:41 So the TV should have stayed away.
00:03:11:41 – 00:03:13:52 They shouldn’t have covered. It was good.
00:03:13:52 – 00:03:14:53 Is that the solution?
00:03:14:53 – 00:03:16:50 No, I mean, I, I wrestle with that, like.
00:03:16:50 – 00:03:18:04 Okay, you make a very good point.
00:03:18:04 – 00:03:21:08 No, I been let me back up and say I thought it was a film.
00:03:21:20 – 00:03:23:42 And I said in the beginning, oh, yeah, I heard all about this.
00:03:23:42 – 00:03:25:16 No, I had not heard anything about it.
00:03:25:16 – 00:03:28:50 What I thought we were going to hear about is the same as next up in YouTube.
00:03:28:50 – 00:03:30:14 And there on the screen behind you.
00:03:31:35 – 00:03:32:51 Jasper was.
00:03:32:51 – 00:03:33:54 So that was Jasper.
00:03:33:54 – 00:03:35:47 That’s Jasper. Okay, so I was confused.
00:03:35:47 – 00:03:36:50 Did you have the time in me?
00:03:36:50 – 00:03:38:22 This everybody, when he got the joke
00:03:38:22 – 00:03:41:34 that Ross just moved away from fighter to get away from the Klan.
00:03:41:36 – 00:03:44:34 I got I think we got a stage town. Ha ha ha.
00:03:44:34 – 00:03:45:51 Jasper and I made it.
00:03:45:51 – 00:03:48:06 People got the joke. I mean, and he really did do that.
00:03:48:06 – 00:03:50:55 That really did happen. Yeah, yeah. Oh. He didn’t.
00:03:50:55 – 00:03:53:44 So you you opened my eyes here to you.
00:03:53:44 – 00:03:55:43 Okay. You know, you think about.
00:03:55:43 – 00:03:58:43 Do we know what happened to the old lady with that?
00:03:59:31 – 00:04:00:49 I don’t think she’s still alive.
00:04:00:49 – 00:04:03:23 She never paid. Who was a paper dancer? They knew.
00:04:03:23 – 00:04:07:31 They they you had to pay X amount of money to these people that you bother,
00:04:07:31 – 00:04:10:30 but they you. She was never gonna pay to take your judgment.
00:04:10:30 – 00:04:12:44 I don’t know how she tried to compensate.
00:09:45:18 – 00:09:47:49 If the Klan had not gone to Vidor
00:09:47:49 – 00:09:51:48 would the Bat Lady and certain other people still be obnoxiously rude, yes,
00:09:51:48 – 00:09:54:42 but that they’re still there, they’re like stoking the hostility.
00:09:54:42 – 00:09:59:00 Yes, I think they they really got people riled up
00:09:59:18 – 00:10:03:06 and getting on TV got them riled up and, you know, bringing up it was violent.
00:10:03:06 – 00:10:04:20 Do You guys know the history of the Klan.
00:10:04:20 – 00:10:08:35 The Klan was originally this rather small thing in Tennessee.
00:10:09:13 – 00:10:13:07 And then there was a play based on the memory of the Klan called The Klansman,
00:10:13:25 – 00:10:16:42 that got turned into a silent movie called “BIRTH OF A NATIONâ€
00:10:17:35 – 00:10:20:27 And they you had to get in trouble for saying this,
00:10:20:27 – 00:10:24:57 but a nationwide craze, flew by flying cosplayers.
00:10:25:10 – 00:10:28:09 They saw the movie BIRTH OF A NATION and the Klan took off again.
00:10:28:31 – 00:10:29:36 Then it kind of faded away.
00:10:29:36 – 00:10:32:00 Then it came back during the civil Rights movement,
00:10:32:57 – 00:10:33:33 and then it kind of
00:10:33:33 – 00:10:36:58 faded away and it bumped up a little bit in the 90s.
00:10:36:58 – 00:10:39:47 I couldn’t tell you what the with the response of it.
00:10:39:47 – 00:10:42:54 But did the Klans being there stir the pot?
00:10:43:00 – 00:10:46:50 get people excited, get somebody who was quietly racist to be loudly racist?
00:10:46:50 – 00:10:48:22 Yes, absolutely.
00:10:48:22 – 00:10:49:01 Absolutely.
00:10:49:01 – 00:10:52:01 And the Klan is always,
00:10:53:02 – 00:10:54:55 you know, it’s all blacks.
00:10:54:55 – 00:10:57:30 Go back to your country, go back to your country.
00:10:57:30 – 00:11:00:16 We’re all guilty of that. Absolutely.
00:11:00:16 – 00:11:02:29 Especially white people. Oh, I go back to your country?
00:11:02:29 – 00:11:04:00 Fine, go back to France, Go back to Russia
00:11:04:00 – 00:11:07:00 Native Americans, you know, and it’s it’s like,
00:11:07:11 – 00:11:11:23 how hypocritical are we too because this was not our.
00:11:11:41 – 00:11:14:35 Our land and boundary delineation.
00:11:14:35 – 00:11:16:07 You know, it. Was already here.
00:11:16:07 – 00:11:20:12 Yes. You know so it was,it was kind of ridiculous.
00:11:20:12 – 00:11:22:10 I completely agree.
00:11:22:10 – 00:11:24:47 And there’s different versions and there’s one
00:11:24:47 – 00:11:28:10 I had one with the history of the Klan. I had another one with the history of Vidor.
00:11:28:10 – 00:11:30:28 And I cut it out because it was boring People thought, but,
00:11:31:53 – 00:11:34:40 they,
00:11:34:40 – 00:11:35:47 One of the Grand Dragons lived there. There was a metal pipe.
00:11:35:47 – 00:11:36:23 Lived there.
00:11:36:23 – 00:11:38:25 And I found his house , there was still
00:11:38:25 – 00:11:41:25 believe it or not, the metal pipe that he would light the cross on
00:11:42:13 – 00:11:44:39 If you go to my YouTube channel, there’s a lot of deleted footage.
00:11:44:39 – 00:11:47:30 If you’re interested, look up, “The least on my brothers†YouTube channel.
00:11:47:30 – 00:11:49:47 Theres things that I cut out because I thought it was slower.
00:11:49:47 – 00:11:52:34 But yes, if I think it goes, of course they’re neo-Nazis.
00:11:52:34 – 00:11:54:45 There was that one group?
00:11:54:45 – 00:11:56:04 They weren’t neo-Nazis.
00:11:56:04 – 00:11:57:23 In so much as he never said
00:11:57:23 – 00:12:01:30 anything about Hitler or Germany or Germany, National Socialism,
00:12:01:53 – 00:12:06:25 but there’s no denying what he wanted for America was a heck of a lot.
00:12:06:25 – 00:12:08:07 Like, what did Hitler wanted for Germany.
00:12:08:07 – 00:12:10:06 So from that point of view, He WAS a Neo-Nazi
00:12:11:16 – 00:12:13:00
00:12:13:00 – 00:12:16:00 So you were shooting this for five years? Yes.
00:12:16:47 – 00:12:18:04 So what kept you going?
00:12:18:04 – 00:12:21:20 And was it that you were trying, as you said, you were trying to prove
00:12:21:20 – 00:12:24:20 that the Klan did it, or like, they were like,
00:12:25:41 – 00:12:26:53 I wanted to make a movie.
00:12:26:53 – 00:12:31:57 I want yeah, I can tell you, I’m some great crusader on a horse
00:12:32:09 – 00:12:33:59 I wanted to make a movie
00:12:33:59 – 00:12:36:16 So I started, but I didn’t want to spend five years.
00:12:36:16 – 00:12:37:40 I never meant to spend five years.
00:12:37:40 – 00:12:40:37 I thought it would maybe be six months, but I couldn’t find people.
00:12:40:37 – 00:12:41:36 I didn’t have time to edit.
00:12:41:36 – 00:12:45:12 I didn’t have access to editing equipment which which was a thing back then.
00:12:45:12 – 00:12:45:50 It’s not today.
00:12:45:50 – 00:12:47:27 You can do it all on your phone,
00:12:47:27 – 00:12:52:02 but back then I to get access to an AVID, get access to BetaCam Cameras 00:12:52:02 – 00:12:53:21 That was not an easy thing to do.
00:12:57:13 – 00:13:00:42 Is that what kept you going was that you were trying to prove
00:13:00:42 – 00:13:02:35 that the Klan was responsible
00:13:02:35 – 00:13:03:38 Yes. Yeah.
00:13:03:38 – 00:13:06:52 So one, I wanted to crack open the case and show what really happened.
00:13:06:52 – 00:13:07:21 You know, I was right.
00:13:07:21 – 00:13:10:40 I wanted to finish my movie, I wanted to, so I did everything.
00:13:11:11 – 00:13:17:47 And what was interesting was I was starting to lean towards thinking: “You know what? The Cops were right†It really was just a drive by.
00:13:18:28 – 00:13:21:06 And I still thought that Vidor was a racist town.
00:13:21:06 – 00:13:24:06 I interviewed somebody who was still living in the complex,
00:13:24:24 – 00:13:28:00 and I was about to pack my camera, and that’s when I looked up.
00:13:28:02 – 00:13:31:39 And then. the shot, of the little girl’s having a tea party
00:13:32:19 – 00:13:36:18 that was going on So I quick grab my camera and video-ed that.
00:13:37:26 – 00:13:40:01 And then I put the camera away and somebody said, “So what are you doing?â€
00:13:40:01 – 00:13:40:55 “Making a movie in Vidorâ€
00:13:40:55 – 00:13:43:55 That was just a black girl who said, this is not a racist town.
00:13:44:58 – 00:13:48:56 So I pulled the camera back out, Miked her up and just interviewed her.
00:13:49:31 – 00:13:52:31 And then like on the drive, home, I thought: hmmmmmm
00:13:52:44 – 00:13:55:06 That was kind of a turning point.
00:13:55:06 – 00:13:56:44 That’s when I kind of realized that I was wrong.
00:13:56:44 – 00:13:59:44 It wasn’t the Klan and Vidor
00:14:01:04 – 00:14:03:43 And then I can’t I’m not going to say it’s not a racist town 00:14:03:43 – 00:14:08:06 To this day You hear about black people not wanting to stop for gas there.
00:14:08:06 – 00:14:10:35 But is that true? Or is that hype?
00:14:10:35 – 00:14:11:44 Yeah, I don’t know.
00:14:11:44 – 00:14:14:11 I played with the idea of making a sequel.
00:14:14:11 – 00:14:17:49 Maybe for a hidden camera on a black guy Have him go buy gas and see what happens.
00:14:18:10 – 00:14:19:08 I thought about that,
00:14:19:08 – 00:14:21:29 In other words, the exact same thing A CURRENT AFFAIR did?
00:14:21:29 – 00:14:25:35 OOH! Gut Punch! Well done sir!
00:14:25:35 – 00:14:28:04 Now know you say that. Yes I would. Well.
00:14:28:04 – 00:14:31:04 Oh all right, I’m doing another question like
00:14:31:40 – 00:14:34:23 okay, I was just going to just make your own comment.
00:14:34:23 – 00:14:39:06 I think what what makes us feel resonant all these years later is that,
00:14:40:23 – 00:14:43:16 you know, we live in an era of are conspiracy theories.
00:14:43:16 – 00:14:46:35 I mean, you know, with social media and all that, and it shows how
00:14:47:08 – 00:14:51:03 people were even back then, 30, 40 years ago,
00:14:51:18 – 00:14:54:18 we’re still doing things for,
00:14:56:05 – 00:14:59:05 you know, coming in from outside to kind of,
00:14:59:23 – 00:15:02:23 you know, start this,
00:15:02:47 – 00:15:05:23 make it look like things are going on in the town.
00:15:05:23 – 00:15:07:50 The media was feeding on it and all that.
00:15:07:50 – 00:15:10:57 And, doing what, I guess would we call fake news?
00:15:11:26 – 00:15:14:55 And, you know, this was all happening back then,
00:15:15:15 – 00:15:24:40 and that leads us to the era here now where people are very skeptical about about the media and maybe rightfully so,
00:15:25:24 – 00:15:33:50 Apparently they missed lot of the stuff that was going on in Vidor was really primarily outside forces.
00:15:33:50 – 00:15:40:45 And, you know, and then the whole thing about it’s about the death of Simpson is, you know, the conspiracy theories
00:15:40:45 – 00:15:46:43 It took a long time to unravel that it really was just, you know, street crime. Right?
00:15:47:36 – 00:15:51:25 Everybody even think that it was a coincidence
00:15:51:25 – 00:15:54:25 you never even got to sleep in his house
00:15:54:29 – 00:15:55:25 on the night that.
00:15:55:25 – 00:15:57:57 He was going to go to sleep in his house.
00:15:57:57 – 00:15:58:53 He gets killed.
00:15:58:53 – 00:16:02:47 Yes. What a freaking coincidence, this amazing coincidence.
00:16:02:47 – 00:16:07:08 And that’s why I had first thought for sure it had to be somebody from Vidor that did this.
00:16:07:36 – 00:16:09:11 Although in hindsight, I think about it.
00:16:09:11 – 00:16:12:10 I spent a lot of time talking to the Klansmen and reading their literature.
00:16:12:13 – 00:16:17:19 I am NOT ori Klan at all. I’m just saying from their point of view,
00:16:18:08 – 00:16:21:31 if Bill Simpson had been killed the day he moved IN to Vidor
00:16:21:31 – 00:16:26:58 I’d say maybe it was the Klan On the day he moved out? Why would they care?
00:16:26:58 – 00:16:31:00 I mean, I could almost see the Klan paying for the U Haul to help him move.
00:16:31:00 – 00:16:38:49 I am joking but Yes, yes, it is an incredible irony.
00:16:39:43 – 00:16:42:42 And, you know, I gave some a little bit of,
00:16:43:17 – 00:16:44:07 not lip service,
00:16:44:07 – 00:16:47:07 but I brought up the conspiracy theories, like, people think that people think that
00:16:48:06 – 00:16:50:41 that when you get into how the landlady.
00:16:50:41 – 00:16:53:28 How did she get into HUD housing for me, I looked into that.
00:16:53:28 – 00:16:55:38 It was completely genuine. It was aboveboard.
00:16:55:38 – 00:16:58:18 She never rented throught HUD before. You’re right, she didn’t
00:16:58:18 – 00:16:59:56 Nobody wanted to rent to Bill SImpson
00:16:59:56 – 00:17:01:48 Nobody wanted the publicity.
00:17:01:48 – 00:17:03:13 She saw him on TV.
00:17:04:15 – 00:17:05:44 She says,
00:17:05:44 – 00:17:08:49 I did this out of the kindness of my heart to give the guy a place to live.
00:17:09:32 – 00:17:12:32 Ive talked to some people that,
00:17:12:57 – 00:17:14:11 I to go.
00:17:14:11 – 00:17:16:35 It was partly, that she wanted the money.
00:17:16:35 – 00:17:17:41 She wanted to rent that house.
00:17:17:41 – 00:17:23:16 She had a house to rent, she had an empty rental property that she couldnt rent anybody because it was in a bad neighborhood.
00:17:23:52 – 00:17:28:04 So instead of that house laying empty shes now getting some H.U.D. money.
00:17:29:55 – 00:17:32:17 Plus the notoriety
00:17:32:17 – 00:17:35:17 Yes. Yes.
00:17:35:31 – 00:17:38:31 She she,
00:17:38:33 – 00:17:40:12 she wouldn’t appear on camera.
00:17:40:12 – 00:17:43:24 Partially because her Hollywood agents told her not to.
00:17:45:10 – 00:17:48:24 At the time I made this, you know, you saw the thing where she.
00:17:48:25 – 00:17:51:12 She was in the National Enquirer.
00:17:51:12 – 00:17:53:52 “Landlady taking back the streets.â€
00:17:53:52 – 00:17:55:51 She’s cleaning up her neighborhood.
00:17:55:51 – 00:17:57:06 She’s a crusader.
00:17:57:06 – 00:18:00:06 No, she wanted to increase the value of a rental property.
00:18:00:11 – 00:18:03:27 And there was talk of making either a movie or a TV show about her.
00:18:04:28 – 00:18:06:40 And Delta Burke was going to play her.
00:18:06:40 – 00:18:09:40 Oh, wow. And,
00:18:10:08 – 00:18:12:45 No, no, it was it was going to be Delta Burke.
00:18:12:45 – 00:18:15:31 If it was a TV show It was going to be Kathy Bates if it was a movie 00:18:16:33 – 00:18:19:54 And for, you know, for whatever reason, that didn’t happen.
00:18:22:18 – 00:18:27:42 You guys didnt ask about this, (I thought somebody would,) I’ve toyed with the idea of making a sequel
00:18:27:42 – 00:18:30:42 “Vidor Today†I might do that one day.
00:18:31:00 – 00:18:33:56 There actually been
00:18:33:56 – 00:18:35:33 three sequels to my movie
00:18:35:33 – 00:18:39:11 That I didn’t make I got paid for some of it.
00:18:39:58 – 00:18:43:03 The story, the, the billboard, the fall. Is it.
00:18:43:05 – 00:18:46:12 “This is Vidor, where you can get away with murdering a woman.â€
00:18:46:37 – 00:18:47:49 Did anybody hear that story
00:18:49:00 – 00:18:49:40 that had
00:18:49:40 – 00:18:53:41 absolutely nothing to do with racism, with the Klan, the Kathy page?
00:18:54:37 – 00:18:56:22 This young woman in VIdor.
00:18:56:22 – 00:18:58:54 Was killed in mysterious circumstances.
00:18:58:54 – 00:19:01:27 The circumstantial evidence
00:19:01:27 – 00:19:05:03 points to the ex-husband just incredible amount of circumstantial evidence.
00:19:05:03 – 00:19:06:37 But they can’t prove it.
00:19:06:37 – 00:19:07:43 The father was so angry.
00:19:07:43 – 00:19:09:47 Is is so obviously the ex-husband.
00:19:09:47 – 00:19:11:55 Why aren’t the Vidor cops doing anything about this?
00:19:11:55 – 00:19:13:59 He put up those billboards. to embarrass them.
00:19:13:59 – 00:19:14:15 He’s.
00:19:14:15 – 00:19:16:50 I think somebody from the police took a bribe.
00:19:16:50 – 00:19:18:40 I don’t believe. I just think they couldn’t prove it.
00:19:18:40 – 00:19:21:32 It’s one of these things that we know is that guy.
00:19:21:32 – 00:19:23:31 We can’t prove it.
00:19:23:31 – 00:19:26:25 So there was a been a couple of things like,
00:19:26:25 – 00:19:29:36 Unsolved Mysteries with Robert Stack did the Cathy Page story.
00:19:30:05 – 00:19:33:14 The Cathy Page story also kind of inspired
00:19:33:21 – 00:19:36:21 the Movie “Three Billboards Outside Ebbing, Missouriâ€
00:19:36:48 – 00:19:38:21 I remember them going back five years ago
00:19:39:24 – 00:19:43:03 that the writer said he was driving from Florida to California.
00:19:43:03 – 00:19:44:12 He saw billboards here.
00:19:44:12 – 00:19:47:01 You know, why is nothing being done about this murder.
00:19:47:01 – 00:19:51:26 He saw a billboard. He got the idea. and he wrote a completely fictitious story insired by that billboard.
00:19:52:21 – 00:19:53:42 Another sequel
00:19:53:42 – 00:19:59:10 Somebody approached me, Anthony Griffith black NAACP lawyer that represented the Klansman
00:19:59:10 – 00:20:00:30 He wouldn’t talk to me on camera.
00:20:00:30 – 00:20:01:55 He talked to me on the phone.
00:20:01:55 – 00:20:05:21 Well, someAfrican-American podcasters contacted him
00:20:05:21 – 00:20:08:33 and they did something I didn’t do, but they talked him into doing it.
00:20:09:08 – 00:20:14:01 So there’s his story is on the internet, and they’re using clips from my movie in that one.
00:20:14:01 – 00:20:17:26 And there was a TV series or like, it’s on Netflix or on one of those,
00:20:17:37 – 00:20:20:26 Got Saved Texas by Richard Linklater
00:20:20:26 – 00:20:22:26 and one of the episodes is A History of racism,
00:20:22:26 – 00:20:24:36 and they use a lot of footage from, from the movie.
00:20:26:04 – 00:20:31:12 I also had a lot of problems, you guys arent RTF Majors But I didnt have that much footage of The Klan,
00:20:32:06 – 00:20:33:55 There’s only,
00:20:33:55 – 00:20:37:05 I went just did internet searches on pictures of the Klan
00:20:37:06 – 00:20:40:06 He knows a lot of that, I Photoshopped it
00:20:40:32 – 00:20:42:19 I’m going to confess that I was a bad boy.
00:20:42:19 – 00:20:43:45 One of the shots in a burning cross.
00:20:43:45 – 00:20:46:02 I faked that
00:20:46:02 – 00:20:48:58 I got 2 wooden dowels glued together and set it on fire,
00:20:48:58 – 00:20:50:42 because I just needed a shot of a burning cross
00:20:50:42 – 00:20:52:48 I don’t do anything for you about the Olympics.
00:20:52:48 – 00:20:55:18 How did you feel in that moment setting it on fire?
00:20:55:18 – 00:20:56:29 I did in my backyard. I didn’t feel good about it.
00:20:56:29 – 00:20:57:34 I do in my backyard. I didn’t feel good about it.
00:20:57:34 – 00:20:59:29 And I also felt journalistically dubious.
00:20:59:29 – 00:21:01:51 But Im not lying I mean, It did happen.
00:21:01:51 – 00:21:04:46 I just didnt have a shot of it as, like, one of the early versions.
00:21:04:46 – 00:21:06:05 I said “FAKEâ€
00:21:06:05 – 00:21:09:43 Some of the words on the screen ok we get it
00:21:09:43 – 00:21:11:28 Cough. Doris and unrelated news.
00:21:11:28 – 00:21:14:09 At one time you shared stock footage that you were clear to specify.
00:21:14:09 – 00:21:15:35 This is stock footage. Yes.
00:21:16:38 – 00:21:17:19 And I don’t I don’t
00:21:17:19 – 00:21:20:44 know why I didnt do that on the cross, but I think that and,
00:21:21:04 – 00:21:24:47 there was I, for a very short time, was talking to Hollywood
00:21:25:09 – 00:21:26:42 and, like, turning this into a “MOVIE movie”
00:21:26:42 – 00:21:29:08 Oh, man. This is it. This is my dream come true.
00:21:29:08 – 00:21:32:16 And then Waco happened, like, oh, we’re going to follow that story. We’ll get back tto you
00:21:32:16 – 00:21:33:31 Maybe we’ll do something with this.
00:21:33:31 – 00:21:39:07 And, any aspiring screenwriter s in the room,
00:21:39:07 – 00:21:41:02 Every made for TV movie, every one.
00:21:41:02 – 00:21:50:21 Not every movie, every major TV movie is the story of a woman trying to save her family through the strength of her heart.
00:21:50:21 – 00:21:53:06 And I like that may be a recurring theme, but I say no.
00:21:53:06 – 00:21:55:45 It’s ever since they told me that I can’t look at a made for TV movie without going
00:21:55:45 – 00:21:57:33 oh my God, that is it.
00:21:57:33 – 00:22:00:24 So they either wanted to do the story of the two black women who moved out,
00:22:00:24 – 00:22:02:15 or the story of the mayor of Vidor
00:22:03:38 – 00:22:06:16 and I was talking to both of those people,
00:22:06:16 – 00:22:09:50 the 2 women who moved out and the mayor of Vidor about doing the movie and,
00:22:10:42 – 00:22:14:15 the mayor didn’t want to do it because of the bad publicity.
00:22:14:29 – 00:22:16:38 The two women wanted to do it, but andthen the movie never happened.
00:22:16:38 – 00:22:19:15 So, what are you going to do
00:22:19:15 – 00:22:21:54 Anything else I want to talk about,
00:22:21:54 – 00:22:24:46 you know,
00:22:24:46 – 00:22:27:46 I can talk a little about this, anyone else?
00:22:28:02 – 00:22:29:19 What do you think?
00:22:29:19 – 00:22:30:53 I think it was the head of the Klan.
00:22:30:53 – 00:22:33:26 He didn’t want to speak about the bus?
00:22:33:26 – 00:22:36:25 Because he was guilty as sin!
00:22:37:37 – 00:22:39:50 He did drive through that neighborhood.
00:22:39:50 – 00:22:42:49 Not HIM but HIS Klan group
00:22:42:49 – 00:22:45:34 His Klan group did go through that neighborhood.
00:22:45:34 – 00:22:46:42 Did drive through the complex.
00:22:46:42 – 00:22:50:01 There was somebody with a machine gun that is a “threat of force.â€
00:22:50:01 – 00:22:53:56 That’s intimidation by third force actually pointing a gun
00:22:53:56 – 00:22:57:08 at somebody and saying, I’m going to shoot you is a worse crime,
00:22:57:51 – 00:23:01:00 but you driving it through, holding a gun, that’s a crime too.
00:23:01:27 – 00:23:03:51 That’s intimidation by “Threat of force.â€
00:23:03:51 – 00:23:06:26 I dont know about HIM
00:23:06:26 – 00:23:09:25 but his group absolutely did that.
00:23:09:27 – 00:23:13:59 And that’s why he wouldnt talk about it because it could come back in court later on
00:23:15:20 – 00:23:17:06 He was pleading the 5th
00:23:17:06 – 00:23:18:10 He did that.
00:23:18:10 – 00:23:21:40 And then, the voice over in, what was the lady’s name?
00:23:21:40 – 00:23:24:27 Lynn Marie Garsee
00:23:24:27 – 00:23:26:08 Garsee Yes.
00:23:26:08 – 00:23:29:08 Did you does your voiceover saying that she had
00:23:29:21 – 00:23:32:43 kind of orchestrated multiple interviews for you? Yes.
00:23:33:24 – 00:23:34:58 I went to the bathroom.
00:23:34:58 – 00:23:38:14 Did this version have the interview with the woman whose leg got shot off?
00:23:39:12 – 00:23:39:35 It was.
00:23:39:35 – 00:23:42:24 She got me that interview
00:23:42:24 – 00:23:44:42 No TV network in the world, you get that?
00:23:44:42 – 00:23:46:48 She kept saying no . Lynn Marie Garsee got me that
00:23:46:48 – 00:23:47:22 Copy that.
00:23:47:22 – 00:23:50:22 And she got me.
00:23:51:09 – 00:23:52:50 Oh, she got me around the neighborhood.
00:23:52:50 – 00:23:55:40 The shots at Bill Simpson’s house.
00:23:55:40 – 00:23:57:43 She she pointed out that at the house,
00:23:57:43 – 00:24:01:11 and she stood there and, she got me…..
00:24:01:11 – 00:24:01:40
00:24:01:40 – 00:24:05:11 I think there was an she gave me some other phone numbers.
00:24:07:11 – 00:24:10:11 As far as her getting caught
00:24:10:50 – 00:24:13:50 lying on TV.
00:24:15:04 – 00:24:17:28 Remember the part where the the TV crew went to her house
00:24:17:28 – 00:24:20:28 to talk to her about this, and she said people had warned her, not to talk
00:24:21:04 – 00:24:23:01 I can’t prove this.
00:24:23:01 – 00:24:24:39 I think she was just exaggerating.
00:24:24:39 – 00:24:28:06 She probably should like the attention she was at that point in time.
00:24:28:06 – 00:24:30:00 She was about to be famous.
00:24:30:00 – 00:24:33:08 It was sort of making her story into a TV show or a movie,
00:24:33:23 – 00:24:36:53 and she said, people came to me and threatened me not to talk
00:24:37:26 – 00:24:39:21 Who came to you? What are you talking about? When did this happen?
00:24:39:21 – 00:24:41:59 I think she was making herself dramatic.
00:24:41:59 – 00:24:43:31 I think from that.
00:24:43:31 – 00:24:45:29 But I think that’s what happened.
00:24:45:29 – 00:24:47:59 Okay, so you don’t think that she said that you believe.
00:24:49:23 – 00:24:51:22 No, I do not, I do not.
00:24:51:22 – 00:24:55:30 They could easily set him up in Vidor
00:24:55:30 – 00:24:59:35 Like she got him the house so that the Klan know where to go in order to get him?
00:24:59:35 – 00:25:03:03 Anyway, It woldnt that hard to figure out where he went,
00:25:03:03 – 00:25:06:03 But no, I do not think she had anything to do with that.
00:25:06:19 – 00:25:09:31 She set herself up as a saint. “I got Bill Simpson a place to live.â€
00:25:09:50 – 00:25:13:13 One of the one of the attorneys for East Texas Legal Services
00:25:13:13 – 00:25:15:53 said they talked to her right after the shooting,
00:25:15:53 – 00:25:18:28 and they said, did you hear about what happened to Bill Simpson?
00:25:18:28 – 00:25:20:57 She said, yeah, isn’t that terrible?
00:25:20:57 – 00:25:23:45 How am I going to get my next month’s rent?
00:25:23:45 – 00:25:28:03 Nobody would tell me that story on camera
00:25:29:08 – 00:25:31:41 Anybody else?
00:25:31:41 – 00:25:31:57 All right.
00:25:31:57 – 00:25:34:57 Matt I hate to cut you off
00:25:35:31 – 00:25:35:54 on time.
00:25:35:54 – 00:25:40:55 To see the deleted scenes, look up YouTube “The Least of my brothers.â€
00:25:40:55 – 00:25:44:28 And thank you for sharing such a challenging but important film
Wagner is unique in that while he is on the Lone Gunman side, he disagrees with the single bullet theory.
Episode 3, Gerald “Case Closed” Posner
Uploaded in 1920 by 1080 on May 10, 2024.
Episode 4, Dr Martin J Kelly, Jr. Uploaded Jun 9, 2024.
Episode 5, Steve Roe on the General Walker Shooting. Uploaded Jul 2, 2024.
Roe wrote a chapter on Gayle Nix Jacksons “Pieces of the Puzzle” and is writing a book General Edwin Walker.
This is (so far) the best episode from the point of view of production values and camera work. The subject lives near me. So instead of this episode just being a ZOOM call, I shot the conversation with my “real” cameras. I even brought along my drone ( even though there was no logical need for it, I just wanted to use my drone).
Also, I had a lot of documentary footage of Fred Litwin and Steve Roe visiting some JFK related sites in Dallas, and of Roes visit to General Walkers grave outside of Kerr, Texas. (Center Point Cemetery, Center Point, Kerr County, Texas, USA)
Dallas author Dave Perry discusses how he used his experience as an insurance fraud investigator to re-examine and de-bunk many conspiracy stories related to the Kennedy assassination and the supposed “mysterious deaths.”
Scientist Nick Nalli discusses the science and physics of the Kennedy Assassination. He analyzes the science behind the single bullet theory, the “back and to the left” head snap, and the physics of other issues.
This combines a ZOOM Call and some documentary footage I shot of Fred Litwin in New Orleans.
Episode 10, Don Carpenter. Uploaded Jan 23, 2025.
Don Carpenter discusses his book “Man of a Million Fragments: The True Story of Clay Shaw” Clay Shaw was falsely accused by New Orleans District Attorney Jim Garrison of conspiracy to assassinate President John F. Kennedy.
I took the pre-existing book cover and cut it into layers in Adobe Photoshop and animated them in Adobe After Effects.
Episode 11, Bill Brown on J D Tippit.
Lifelong JFK researcher Bill Brown discusses the murder of Dallas Police Officer J. D. Tippit by Lee Harvey Oswald as he (Oswald) tried to evade capture for the assassination of President John F. Kennedy on November 22, 2025. Bill Brown has devoured every major book and document of the Tippit case, has visited Tenth and Patton and the other major Kennedy assassination sites many times and has an encyclopedic knowledge of the case.
You can discuss the Tippet case with Bill Brown at the FaceBook group:
This special episode of “On the Trail of Delusion” includes never before seen aerial drone and ground footage of the Tippit death scene in Oak Cliff (Dallas) and newly created 2D animations illustrating the placement of the people involved.
I shot this footage and created the animations to be used in my upcoming documentary ” The Grassy No” and I thought I’d use it here.
Episode 12, Eric Dezenhall, Wiseguys and the White House
Fred Litwin interviews Eric Dezenhall, author of “Wiseguys and the White House.”
The book is about the Mafia/organized crime connections some Presidents had. He also discusses his experience as a public relations consultant to big corporations led him to believe that the James Bond style “fixers” and hitmen we see in many movies don’t exist.
Episode 13, Dr Nick Nalli on the Acoustics Evidence and the Zapruder Film
Dr Nick Nalli returns to discuss the acoustics evidence as well as the Zapruder Film.
Episode 14, Scott Maudsley on Oswald’s Antisocial Personality Disorder. Uploaded Feb 27, 2025.
Fred Litwin and Scott Maudsley discuss Presidential assassin Lee Harvey Oswald’s (alleged) Antisocial Personality Disorder, Narcissism and other possible psychological disorders. They also discuss the books ” Inside The Criminal Mind,” by Stanton Samenow, “Marina and Lee” by Priscilla Johnson McMillan, “Oswalds Game” by by Jean Davison, “Reclaiming History” by Vincent Bugliosi, “Case Closed” by Gerald Posner, “Mrs. Paine’s Garage” by Thomas Mallon, and several others.
Scott Maudsley’s own video on the subject:
I had nothing to do with the creation of that video.)
The first episode of this series discussed what might be in the JFK files IF they ever get released. Upon his return he discusses what IS in them after President Trump released them.
Renowned scientist Doctor Nick Nalli discusses the dictabelt recording, the physics of the Zapruder film, the notorious “back and to the left headsnap, and other issues related to the Kennedy assassination evidence.
Transcript:
I want to thank everybody for coming this afternoon my name is Fred Litwin noted author Fred Litwin and of course Fred is also the author of I was a teenage JFK conspiracy freak on the trail of delusion in Oliver Stones film flam at the demagogue of Dealey Plaza Fred Litwin is here he’s a longtime author and certainly Watcher of politics joining us uh Fred Litwin great to have you here thank you very much
[Music]
Welcome to another edition of On the Trail of Delusion my bi-weekly podcast where I try to separate the the wheat from the chaff and actually give you something substantive on the JFK assassination rather than the conspiracy Gruel you get all over the Internet so today I’m I’m really quite happy to bring back Dr Nick Nalli foremost scientist who who has studied all aspects of the Kennedy assassination
But let me tell you about his bio he’s got a master’s degree and a PhD in atmospheric and oceanic studies his PhD was from the University of Wisconsin at Madison He worked for the for NOAA and the the US government which studies oceans and climate and now he’s a Atmospheric or imagery scientist at the Department of Defense I mean an incredible background and uh so we’re so lucky because the last time Nick was on On the Trail of Delusion it was a great show I mean it was just a fantastic show and and there’s a lot more to talk about and perhaps Nick will come back for a third time because the science the science of the JFK assassination is absolutely fascinating There’s so much to it and in fact there’ll be more and more over in fact I can’t wait until Nick publishes his first book and I’ll be the first one to buy it believe me so Nick welcome to On the trail of Delusion thank you Fred for having me back on this I enjoy doing this type of thing when I when I get time to do it sometimes tough to find the time but but I I very much enjoy talking about uh two things the science science in general and then also the this JFK assassination which we’re all fascinated by so today what I’m going to do is I’m going to I have some prepared slides actually right and it’s going to be I think because I want to get through two different things here and to get into it a little a little bit of depth and to do that it’s just easier to have the slid so think of this as like being in a college class um and feel free to ask questions uh if you have any uh the audience won’t be able to do that but uh but you can I hope I don’t fall asleep like I used to in college no this this you won’t because you you like this stuff and and yeah so by the way well done on your debate there uh with Matt crumpton
yeah that was very uh nice and I see you had a lot of viewership on that so that that’s really great okay good so just a quick again upfront disclaimer any scientific results or conclusions as well as any views or opinions expressed during the podcast or those of myself do not reflect the views of the US federal government or DOD just so these are topics that I’m going to talk about uh first being the the dpd the Dallas Police Department dict toel recording is it Acoustics evidence and then the second is the rer film does it suffer from alterations or Illusions okay so starting off with the the dict Bel so and there’s a lot of slides to get through here uh is it acoustic evidence and I’m gonna hat tip to Michael Odell Dale Myers Paul Hulk and believe it or not yes Tink Thompson because his book last second in Dallas contains information on this that uh was sort of an introduction to me when I read it so him him as well okay so the birth of the Acoustics evidence so this is sort of just the introductory slide uh this goes back to and in this information you can find in really nice detail on Dale Meyer’s site he has a report that he U published there and he really goes into some nice detail on the history uh Tink Thompson’s book also has a bit of that a little less detail but it’s there so I’m going to just kind of highlight it um in the mid 70s it was Gary Mack and Pen Jones who first made these unsubstantiated claims that the Dallas police radio recordings captured gunshots and Gary Mack claimed over a period not just one time as an off off oneoff but uh over a period of time that there were seven to eight gunshots that he heard on the recordings um and you know that’s quite an extraordinary extraordinary claim right I mean imagine being around this where you hear someone saying that there were tapes made of police in the motorcade from a motorcycle police officer and they heard seven eight shots on those tapes now if that were the case that would be hard evidence of of a conspiracy of course you have to analyze it and make sure you’d want to get the tapes and of course that’s exactly what happened so the house select committee formed for a different reason and formed mostly in responsibility to the zeep rder film um uh so Blakey met with JFK critics in DC uh and Mary frell is the one who brought up the police tapes this is both according to Dale Meyer’s version and Ting Thompson’s version uh and that’s what led to the multi-decadal boondoggle known as the acoustic evidence so this is going from the mid-70s till now and again so I’m going to try to distill that all down so Acoustics evidence just simply recur refers to an audio recording of a continuous Dallas Police Department FM radio transmission that was came from a motorcycle that had its its microphone stuck open on the channel one so there were two channels that the police used this was on channel one so this next slide here uh channel one was used for or radio communications used by the Dallas Police Department a not special events this just daytoday they use channel one they recorded their Communications in a transparent way to be transparent have full transparency there’s nothing cestine going on they’re recording what they’re doing uh that that was recording on a what’s called a dick to belt and that was basically a tape uh that used a stylus so it wasn’t like a magnetic tape you can’t think of it as like an eight track tape for the older people or or cassette tape it was it was like a tape but it used a a stylist that recorded physically the the sound so right off the bat that gives you a sense that okay it wasn’t even a magnetic tape which is already sort of like an old technology magnetic tapes this is like even older so it’s kind of a primitive recording medium but but but all they were trying to do is record The Voice the the words that that the police were saying to one another that was the important thing they weren’t trying to that was the the they weren’t looking for high quality high-fi recordings they’re just looking for the words so the there’s a second Channel they use so channel one channel two that was used for special events and I cannot think of any more special an event than a presidential motorcade so the police officers indeed were using in the motorcade channel two to broadcast uh and those Communications were also recorded but they were recorded on a different type of piece of equipment which is interesting but it might be due to you know funding or whatever at the time but they used a gray autograph and I believe that was an older technology I think uh don’t quote me on that uh so the the autograph was basically like a a record player it had a disc um and it had a stylus the only difference between that and a regular record player is that um as the needle moved inward It sped up and the reason for that was to keep a linear um because as you get toward the center there’s less less the even though the angular motion is the same the linear motion slows down because you have less less uh distance to cover so it speeds up as it moves in um interpretation of the recordings is also Complicated by these other issues by the way all this is uh stuff that I had learned pretty well from Michael Odell and he’s the one who really kind of become a master of all this uh so it’d be good to have him on at some point yeah for for sure yeah yeah CU he he really figured all this stuff out so to conserve the recording media um both these devices had an automatic sound Activation so they switched off when there’s nobody talking makes sense that’s actually uh uh that’s being economical um but that complicates things right so during times where nobody’s talking there’s no recording and so that makes it difficult to keep time on the tapes again for day-to-day recordings it’s perfectly fine but when you’re trying do this sort of forensic stuff it becomes more difficult you have to account for it um they also had an automatic gain control feature AGC and what that does is it’s dampening out loud noises and elevating soft noises so what it’s trying to do is trying to keep a a constant sort of amplitude or volume throughout and the reason again is all they’re caring about is words so if there’s loud noises like um recycles that can be suppressed down a little bit or if they’re talking softly or they don’t have the microphone up close enough to their mouth uh then it gets elevated so you can hear them so that’s the automatic game control then finally the gray autograph was um prone to skipping let me switch this to um uh here we go I’m going to go to the laser pointer there we go so uh so uh the the gray autograph also had an additional problem so the there’s dict about autograph the autograph was prone to skipping okay because it’s like a record player and so it would could Skip and that’s another complication to deal with right all right so now I decided this is decades and decades and to try to keep it all straight I decided to put it together as uh as a saga in three episodes and so the first episode A New Hope 1978 to 1982 um so just having a little fun with this as well um in so I already mentioned in the mid 70s Gary Mech is the one who claims to hear gunshots on the radio recordings Mary frell provides him with like a multi-dimensional copy or something to that effect and he he goes around telling people I can hear multiple shots seven shots eight shots on these recordings so then the house committee assassinations is formed slowly shortly afterwards not in response to that but Blakey meets with them DC Mary frell brings up the police tapes and and so they get the tapes and they I think they get kind of what’s close to R I think the original copies of the tapes maybe um and they performed their own investigations including an acoustical experiment at D Plaza 1979 that’s when the house sub committee releases this report concludes a probable conspiracy and it’s based upon this Acoustics evidence and specifically this W report which they said was a 9 5% confidence that there was a gunman on the grassing up it was a couple years after that that 1982 there is a panel that’s formed and releases a report NRC is National research Council of the academy National Academy um prestigious very prestigious um they investigate the claims simultaneously Steve Barber a musician discovers what’s called a cross talk uh and we’ll get into what that is which suggests the time is off and ourc report ultimately dis sprws the Acoustics and debunks it and that’s it we would hope that should have been it the end one movie but no about 20 years later out of the blue uh there’s this 2001 paper appears in a um peerreview Journal by um DB Thomas and he what happens in the paper he claims to find an alternative cross talk that uh that changes things and puts things back gets the timing and it overrides the uh the whole cross talk that Steve Barber discovered uh so so what happens is then Odell Michael Odell finds an error but then Thomas conceives it and then says well there’s another cross talk and so so basically we’ve begun a new whole chapter and that’s why I’ve kind of broken it up this this all starts here uh Dale Meyers later goes on ABC national television also British BBC television as well uh and basically shows at the open mic where the uh House Sub committee determined that you had to have a Open Mic motorcycle at this location for these Acoustics evidence to to be to be correct U it wasn’t located there and then 2005 liner ATL that’s the surviving panel members from the house committee the Ramsey panel uh they issue a full rebuttal of Thomas’s 2001 paper and then also his check cross talk and then Thomas though unded according to tank Thompson that’s his word undotted uh in 2010 publishes a pro conspiracy apology um entitled he no evil politics science the forensic evidence in the JFK assassination which is a weird title because science and politics have nothing to do with each other right that’s the whole purpose of science science is it doesn’t care about that stuff it just is what it is the world is what it is and we’re just trying to figure it out the universe does not care about politics anyway so um I read that book has a lot of good information in it but a lot of bad stuff as well um and it exaggerated the confidence of the grassy n shot to a ridiculous number
99.999% and then the Final Chapter now so in 2010 by the way the Return of the Jedi the JFK empirically dedicated investigators very good yeah I thought I’d again that’s thought I’d have fun doing this stuff so in in 2007 in 2010 Dale Myers actually puts a report out on his on his uh website his web blog and and it’s over that period because he had different editions but so it’s the 2010 Edition really is the one that but you know it came out 2007 but the 2010 Edition includes a response to Thomas’s book but 2013 comes along and lar Sabel commissions the sellus to do their own independent analysis of the recordings and they come to a conclusion that rejects the Acoustics as well they conclude that the open mic’s not even in the motorcade now again I’m going to get into all this in more detail but I’m just just sort of the overview uh Thompson and so some from 2013 about to 2021 about uh Thompson is at meetings saying that he has a new book in the works and Michael Adell is a consultant for that uh he debunks things that are going on but he’s ignored and then in 2021 Thompson publishes last second in Dallas the book that is his his sort of sequel uh he has a rised reconstruction in there and we’ll get into that in more detail all right so now we’re going to go kind of back and be a little more detailed on what we just talked about so house SE Committee in this late 70s um they were able to get original tapes from the Dallas Police and imagine their disappointment but you you know at the same time I might not have been surprised they listen to them and there’s no gunfire on them they don’t hear anything resembling gunfire whatsoever um um despite that the house committee still decided that they would submit these to acoustical Engineers for analysis that’s you know that’s reasonable and they you know they got the tapes and they probably wanted to just make sure uh and they figured we’ll give them to experts and just to make sure uh that there’s nothing on there so that included J James Barger who is with bolt Baron and Newman BBN and then uh Professor Mark Weiss and Ernest ashkanazi w at St City University of New York these were sort of acoustical experts so it was bargar who first came who first looked at this stuff they they did it in not simultaneously they first went bargar and then Weiss and eskinazi um the an acoustic experiment was set up by uh Barger where they went to D Plaza and they set up a bunch of microphones in an array and then they had live gunfire I think they were using the weapon um the Caro from the Texas School Book Depository and the grassy those two locations so they fired off test shots they had their microphone array and they were looking to see if they can discover uh patterns that would resemble the waveforms that were on the dickout so they did that and then that was handed handed on to Weiss and asazi who performed an additional analysis and it was based upon that Acoustics evidence that the house committee made their their change from a lone gunman to probable conspiracy so this kind of I guess I really talked about all this right here that uh in a way I guess I didn’t need this slide so other than what they did is they they found matches between the waveform impulses and the dictabelt with the test muzzle blasts the echo in D Plaza this shows a diagram from the report that kind of shows what we’re getting at so they had they had buildings in D Plaza there and they were able to come up with different trajectories of sounds uh as they would Echo off of buildings and from the muzzle blast and and such and they were looking for those sounds to see if they correlated with the impulses on the diabel when they did that they came up with a 50% confidence of a way form match with a with the shot that came from the grassy null uh so 50% is half and half so you know it’s it’s like a a random thing so it’s not very good assessment so what happens is then they handed the hell committee said went to Weiss and ask gazi to take a look and what they did is they took the data from Barger and they used a hard copy map and basically pen and P you know P paper and pencil analysis uh to to see what they could come up with and they came up with using their methods a 95% confidence of a gunshot from the grassy null assuming that this specific um that there was a motorcycle located this specific location and the only motorcycle that they could come up with that was reasonably seemed could have been was this HB mlan so it ended up becoming well it’s going to be uh police officer HB mlan he has to be here and if he’s there then we get a waveform match by the way we talk about the waveforms that’s what this is and this is from Weiss and askanazi report so this is in time I believe and so sound is pressure waves through the atmosphere they’re compressive waves coming at you so what it means is that you’ll get momentary high pressure and low pressure coming at you um so so what these sort of waveforms are showing is they’re showing periods of high pressure and low pressure from sways and a lot of what you see here is what we might call static or random basically uh just not much signal there there’s just a lot of what’s you know noise or static uh but you’ll see some places that are spikes that might look like they’re something that’s outside of a a a white noise and definitely here and so that’s where they said the S the suspect impulses are now mind you if you look at the whole set of waveforms you’ll find things like this everywhere right so it’s not anything you unique here but these were the waveforms that they were trying to match is these here um one thing that we got to point out is because of this automatic game control that was on the recording you you the recording itself is never going to have anything that’s really large and that’s the reason why um you wouldn’t expect it that well that was the reason that they hypothesized that we’re not hearing the gunshots is for that reason uh but although even then you you know the the one of the police officers said I believe or someone said that yeah you can still hear gunshots on these things so that that’s that’s ridiculous um so anyway we’re going to go on okay so uh this is the quote First debunking of the acoustic evidence uh it was formerly done by the the NRC Ramsay panel U so they’re the ones who were put together as a result of this Richard sprag I believe this Richard sprag was the one who said you can hear gunshots I think on tapes like this or someone of that nature so he knew that there was a problem because he knew from the photograph the photographic evidence that uh he didn’t think there’s going to be a motorcycle in that location so this is the problem when you rush to judgment to to to borrow that phrase as the house committee did so you know they they kind of rushed this and they didn’t really established things and you have to be you have to establish things they never established that there was a police officer there they just kind of said well yeah he probably could have been there this HB mlan and they let it go with that and this gets you in trouble when you do things like this so This Richard brag knew no there I don’t I don’t think there’s anybody there so he he he didn’t keep his mouth shut um and he went to the justice department and told them about it and then you know they became convinced there’s a problem so that’s what led to this NRC panel being form and that included Nobel prizing physicist uh Norman Ramsey and Luis Alvarez the hated Luise Alvarez he was also on that panel and they immediately found problems but simultaneously in the meantime around the same time they had put out these dick Bel recordings on floppy um bino discs that was in Gallery magazine Gallery magazine now is that like a Gallery magazine that what kind of magazine is that a soft porn magazine like or Playboy that’s what I thought yeah good thank you for that so yeah so so you know Steve Barber and Todd Von they were uh J they bought the magazine for the for the record right like they’re buying Playboy for the interviews they bought the that’s exactly right yes yeah so they’re JFK Buffs and uh but C barara was a musician and uh amaz this is just really these stories are I tell you you can’t make them up so he Steve Barber listens to this and he notices something that nobody else notices that’s this thing called a cross talk where he notices that there’s someone’s voice appears on this channel one open mic and he’s like wait a minute that voice I heard on the channel two and it turns out that’s what the cross talk so so you envision this motorcycle officer has an open mic and but there but the motorcade is still broadcasting in Channel 2 and so someone else’s Channel 2 broadcast got picked up by his open mic and that’s the cross talk now the reason why that becomes um something is because then you can use the channel two to help time things in the channel one because channel one is just open the whole time and so there’s no other broadcast there’s no time markers in there where K to had had time markers specifically things like the the the specific cross talk was this bill Ducker a sheriff he’s saying hold everything secure until homicide investigators get there and we we know that that happened about one minute after the shooting of course we know it’s going to happen after the shooting but it took about a minute before you had police office saying this stuff because they didn’t know even what was going on and so that’s what when I call it the hold cross talk is just because it’s what’s being spoken so that was on channel 2 it got picked up on channel one it’s happening at the same time that the supposed gunshots are happening right so so that’s sort of a debunk right then and there and so Barber notifies the NRC panel of the finding and they uh you know they they found they had found other problems themselves but they they affirmed that yeah that’s that’s that’s the case so the suspect impulses occurred about 1 minute after the shooting and basically all they do is they make sure that it’s true right that they go through their own you know rigor to make sure that it’s not uh that that the the claims here are are correct and so that was it that should have been the end of it and it was for all intents and purposes for uh for 20 years but then again as I said out of the blue uh this paper appears in 200 2001 by a an entomologist at USDA that’s United States dep of Agriculture uh he claims in this paper that there’s another cross talk and this one was spoken by this officer Samuel Bella and that that cross talk trumps the the whole cross talk and that yes it’s the grass andol Gman because it restored the timing the paper receives mainstream media attention because it’s that’s an extraordinary claim I mean I mean that’s it’s huge uh if that’s the case you know he basically saying there’s a grassy old gunman so that became out in the open right away and of course people hear about it so T Thompson heard about it and and Michael Odell this person who up to that point would have been what you call an unknown uh and he was not a JFK buff I talked to him he wasn’t a JFK buff he was just a a computer scientist uh and he he liked this type of stuff and he was quite like whoa interesting so uh you know this could it be that someone really scientifically proved that there’s a grassy n gun so he just looked into it uh but within I don’t know maybe a couple months he can confirm for you I mean short order he he found out the problem and by the way this problem is not necessarily Don Thomas’s fault right so what happened is there are skips in the channel 2 autograph recording that weren’t accounted for they weren’t even accounted for by the NRC they they they didn’t account for these things and so what happened is the the omission of these SK the time due to these skips uh they invalidated Thomas’s conclusion but they did not invalidate the NRC conclusion uh the impulses were too late 30 seconds too late still and Don Thomas acknowledged this so when when U when Michael Adell got a hold of Don Thomas to tell him about this uh Thomas acknowledged it and he actually at a JFK meeting too that his his objections were were overruled and and that was it and the thing is is there was nothing wrong with that and it wasn’t really a bad doesn’t really reflect bad on Thomas it wasn’t error due to himself it was just something that nobody had caught Odell caught was the one who caught it again that should have been in the end of it so the Ramsey panel survivors published a rebuttal paper and that debunked it and that should have been the end of it now this is another little side out here so independently and this is stuff that again Michael D can get into with you if you want uh he independently went back and debunked the uh the Weiss askanazi report so he and this is I think the his um I think Odell’s um paper on this is is online I think you can find it at the the McAdams website he has it out there uh where he what he did is he tried to reproduce their result and was unable to do so and he he concluded the following this attempt to reproduce that experiment has demonstrated significant errors and wa’s results at every step falsifying their report that’s what he did he falsified their report basically puts us back to where things were before the house committee and hired them to do the analysis he tried to contact all of them but they all decline the comment now usually when you have someone declining the comment it usually means that it’s sort of like a tacit admission um and and and it’s also like sort of like in a little bit maybe you’re a little embarrassed by it at least that’s the way I take it definitely that’s the case for Weiss and eskinazi to my knowledge and Fred you might even be able to confirm I don’t think they ever spoke up again about about the Acoustics I think they kind of remain mum um for the rest of their time and and markk Weiss uh he passed away in 2020 and uh his obituary is here and you notice they feature in the obituary that he worked in the Watergate tapes but when you go into the obituary there’s no mention of the Acoustics and so that’s sort of more um I think um pass acknowledgement that they knew that they had problems with what they did um it would have been better if they came out publicly and acknowledged it it’s what I think they should have done but certainly better that they not go out and try to defend the indefensible it just makes things much worse yeah it just better if you if you feel like you can’t admit you’re wrong then just keep quiet about it and let it go all right so now the Dale Myers and sist reports this is all really great stuff because it’s all different it’s all independent lines of argument so Dale Myers used an upper polar geometric analysis that just means you use cameras from different angles and you’re able to redu three dimensionality out of it so he he used the the different films put them all together especially this film but also others and uh he was able to determine exactly where HB mlan was and that was he was 175 ft from the HOSA committee position that he needed to be one and a half seconds before the shot so 175 ft and one and a half seconds it’s a little bit too fast right so so bottom line is he wasn’t there and that invalidated uh the the the house committee um conclusion uh and again this is all published in detail now he went on ABC talked about this in 2003 but but he has a detailed report that you can find from his website that talks about all this independent of that Larry Sabo 9 2013 uh commissioned the sonist solists are are sonar sh for sonar analyst they’re like a engineering and Tech contractor supports the military espec I think especially in the Navy for for sonar which is sound um they performed an independent analysis of the dict tabel what they did is they looked at the channel one audio and they an analyzed the motorcycle engine speed and they were able to determine by the sound and they knew what kind of motorcycle they actually knew what kind of motorcycle it was and they were able to deduce the engine speed was way too fast it was going it was like going like uh like uh 30 or 40 mil an hour or something to that effect it it was it was not in the motor cave basically So Not only was it not in the position that was supposed to be it just wasn’t even in the motor cave right so all right so now that leads us to in spite of all this um tin Thompson still triy to resurrect the Acoustics in his book so as I mentioned he he worked on this book and he teased it at meetings JFK meetings about this book that he he’s going to come up and um and that the book was last second in Dallas and he comes up with a Revis scenario from his from his earlier book um his book six seconds in Dallas this one here he changes what what happened um and he claims that there’s a second shot to the head so Jeff K is shot in the head from the grassy null at z313 and then later he shot the head from behind which is just um doesn’t take into account aam’s razor whatsoever I mean it’s just a very convoluted way of trying to get somebody on the grassy know it’s I can describe it um so so he he relies on Thomas’s check cross talk which was debunked um by Michael Odell uh in and um in his book uh so tin came up with a couple of his own arguments I’m not going to get into detail here that’s the type of thing that uh Michael Dell might want to talk about maybe um but more formidably T consulted with James barer the original the original expert that the H committee uh relied on along with a junior engineer and they wrote an appendix for tin’s book and the appendix is pretty looks pretty technical it is technical uh but Michael Dell already had known about all this stuff and he knew there were problems there um he just kept mom about it uh so so those that something that he might want to talk about as well now this is sort of a sort of an overview conclusion of everything I just talked about um from a scientific perspective so it’s the Acoustics non-evidence uh there’s there’s nothing there it was a was a motorcycle uh broadcasting on channel one it wasn’t part of the motorcade and had its microphone stuck open it did not record anything from the crime scene uh there are three General categories of arguments that discredit it I’m going to distill it down one is timing issues so this is the original one this is the one that most everybody had been focused on this started with the uh with the hold cross talk that uh Steve Barber came up with that went into the ramsy report uh basically the suspect W forms on the dict to Belt happened one minute after the shooting approximately the open mic location assumptions uh the open mic motorcycle was not in the location it needed to be that’s at Myers talked about and not only that but it wasn’t even in the motorcade it was someplace else uh and that’s what sonus came up with and then finally insufficient audio information content what does that mean it means that the dict belt Was A Primitive recording media and it did not contain information that could tell you that there were gunshots that’s the reason why we didn’t hear the gunshots is the waveforms themselves one thing about a gunshot it’s loud what does that mean High amplitude so if you were to look at a waveform that really captures that information that what you’re hearing you’ll see like a very large amplitude and then it might come off and then maybe there’s shock wave or something like that that’s not there um and that’s because they they didn’t record that information they they did not record that information they could not they could not record that information now why is that such a big deal um it’s because right from the start before all this stuff they should have known this they should have realized that the these recordings we we cannot definitely tell you that there’s an acoustical signature that’s associated with gunfire to the exclusion of other ambient sources what are other ambient sources motorcycles people yelling oh also cross talks so the whole cross talk discovered by Steve Barber uh that itself from Channel 2 is a non-ambient is an is an ambient source of sound that is not a gunshot turns out Michael Dell has looked into that a little bit and uh it can create impulses that look just like it and so the suspect waveforms are most likely I think uh and this is what Michael Dell thinks uh were due to the the whole cross Talk itself so the gunshots was just the the cross talk so when when Weiss and as asanagi did their test of firing from the sixth floor window what they were they they claimed to have matched that wave form to the the dictabelt where did they really go wrong in that in sort of that match I don’t think that they went wrong there because what they were trying to match were all the different sounds that came out of De Plaza due to a gunshot from certain locations right so from both from the you know and from the Texas schoolbook depository and so you got like a muzzle blast a Bist ballistic crack or shock wave and then Echoes from buildings and so they were looking for matches between those types of sounds along against the waveforms of that was on the dicta Bel so they they in other words they created the they created those sounds and then they recorded them from a microphone array and then they were able to find for that one microphone near the intersection that there was a a waveform match but the thing is what does it mean what does match mean right so this is where you have to get into the you have to kind of get into the weeds a little bit which is not what I’m doing yeah you have to figure out well how what does it mean that something is matched and then not only that but is that the only source that can create those waveforms that’s what this here is and that’s where the whole thing was sort of doomed even if a lot of these other problems are going away as I mentioned um even if the timing even there was no hold cross talk let’s say there’s no you know F maybe Dale Meers found that there was the police officer there even if all that were the case in my opinion is still a problem because you haven’t proven that the recording is a gunshot it could be due to other things right and that’s what that’s what Michael had already shown but like but in theory it could be I mean there’s other sounds that can give rise to things so that’s called that’s the information content problem it’s what you can derive out of data certain data you know data gives you information and then it depends on how much information is in there what kind of conclusions that you can make oftentimes you don’t have enough information so you make assumptions that const strain things a little bit in this case the assumptions they made was that the dict number one was a police officer in the motorcade number two they were located at that location and number three that the dict Bel had gunshots on it but we didn’t even hear the gunshots and there’s no way for him that suggests that that’s a gunshot right so those those were the problems they were fatal problems from the beginning in my opinion in my opinion all they could have ever claimed if everything else were to go away all they could have ever claimed was we did an analysis and from our analysis we cannot rule out the grass SE null as a location we did an analysis we got a waveform match from a grassy n shooter a waveform match as I mentioned um uh so we can’t rule it out but we don’t know if it was gunshot or not that’s it okay all right so let uh and that’s what I just said here so yeah so this just uh I forgot what he even had in these slides uh that so that that’s that’s kind of what these are showing when I was just talking about so this is what a grassy null test shot looks like this has got the amplitude information in there see how how you got this loud sound this is the muzzle blast and you might have a shock wave after that and it kind of goes off into this tiny little area here see uh so but then this is what the dicta Bel had right there’s a big difference between these and what they did is they just assumed that well that’s because there was this automatic game this got truncated and that’s an assumption though you know that and that assumption you you can’t make that assumption unless you have very good proof to do so so that’s where their mistake was and by the way this here this is Michael Odell doing his own waveforms where he just made a k sound I guess he went and that’s what it produces so so a k sound can make uh you know can make impulse matches basically what he’s trying to get at and that’s that’s what the the hold was right so the whole cross talk was most was very likely causing this U anyway again he can get into much more detail about that all right so I think if you don’t have any other questions about Acoustics we can go on to the zville no just one question a very quick question about Ting Thompson I mean what where did he what fooled him or what you know what what you know he he he overrides all of this and accepts the Acoustics evidence and and so how how did he fool himself yeah well that’s a great question and that’s a great way of putting it because I think that is the best way of putting it is he’s fooling himself and I think Michael I think um Richard feineman had some sort of quote about be careful about fooling yourself because you’re the easiest person to fool um I I think that he probably was looking for Vindication of his earlier work which was perfectly fine I mean again he had a wrong conclusion but otherwise was a contributor to to the knowledge base and I I I think he was just looking for validation of that for whatever reason I don’t know if it’s ego or if he wants it to be and um and and it’s this uh don Thomas provided part of that so they I know that those two because I’ve heard about this I wasn’t at these meetings but I heard that the two of them kind of collaborated quite a bit um and so he’s one of the ones who Who provided him that and then and then there was other people at these meetings that provided other things things that he he he just kind of took and ran with one of them being David wimp uh who is the one who first put the idea in his head about the blur illusion which we can get to and uh and then there was another person too at at one of these meetings that that uh talked about the second shot to the head oh you know if you notice later in your own data you know there’s a forward there’s a there’s a emotion forward and that was more than the head snap and so yeah he was shot in the head you know again twice um and no it’s not what’s in the data it’s not there so it it’s too bad that Thompson did that I think his last second Dallas could have been a really it’s like I say it was a missed opportunity to me he could have come out and re um he could have corrected things from his first book in a proper way and and uh instead he he he didn’t he sort of doubled down and and made it worse worse than his original book but other than that it was a it was a you know interesting book you read it he talks about his he does a lot of biographical uh talking in in the book about his what he did you know during that time period during the exciting time period with his Life magazine and he got his hands in the zi rer filming looked at stuff and so you can kind of get a sense of being that person and being sort of in that moment and and being excited by it and you know it was like big part of his life and so you can read the book and enjoy it for that reason but not not for his conclusions
though all right so we’ll go on now this is a good segue say that PR film does it suffer from alterations or Illusions um this is hat tip to Roland Zada he’s a uh Kodak film expert Francis Corbat who’s the who’s the principal scientist at the itch Corporation Max howand Paul Hook and the six floor Museum de Plaza uh particularly Max and six floor for giving me a couple frames from the Z film uh okay so just background again on what the film is it’s forensic photographic evidence and so I I love photographic as physical because it’s uh it’s tangible but also it records phys physicality um uh remote sensing is what it is it’s the process is deriving information from em radiation and photogrametry is a subdiscipline of remote sensing um and so it involves the measurement of photographing images it’s applied in numerous fields of study including forensic science obviously but others as well um just a quick overview of the zapa camera so it was a bell and Hall zoomatic had a shutter speed of about 55 milliseconds per per per frame um and then it exposure time of 25 milliseconds so what happens is the shutter opens for 25 milliseconds and then it closes and then it’s closed for about half of the time so you got to keep this stuff all in mind so opens captures an image closes and then for about 25 milliseconds or 30 m milliseconds it’s closed things are going on and it’s not doing anything then it opens again um he used smartly K Krome 2 outdoor reversal film it was not opt it was not highspeed it would mean and we’ll get into what that means it was optimized for bright lighting conditions which is what we had in November 22nd okay so there’s this thing that’s going on there’s this thing called zilm denialism was what I’m going to call it and it’s one of these again these things can’t you can’t make some of this stuff up so ad hoc assumptions we know what those are and conspiracy theorists using them in drove so if there’s something you don’t like just come up with well that an ad hoc assumption um and and you just keep doing it and so what they’ve done is they’ve built so many ad hoc assumptions that come around the universe is sort of circular it’s a curved Universe due to relativity I guess maybe or something it’s come right back around and now the that Pruder film which is the whole impetus for the first generation waren commission uh critics including tankk Thompson uh you know they relied on it for criticizing the warrant commission report for the single bullet theory the back end to the left and that’s why the house select committee was form was because of it um so but now we’ve had so many of these head HW hypotheses that now ironically you got a lot of people out there a lot of them it’s not even fringed by The Fringe standards it’s you know there’s it’s almost become a mainstream thing and now Tink Thompson is becoming the one who’s sort of being uh forgotten about out uh they they deny it’s authentic they think that it was tampered with and altered and and then if they don’t do that that’s alterationist if they’re not doing that then you have uh others who just deny things like so for example you watch it in full watch it in full speed and Jeff K and Connelly they react at the same time you can see it I mean it’s it’s it’s so obvious when you watch it um people deny that they say no they’re not reacting at the same time I I think I do think this was one of the faults of the Warren Commission that the Warren Commission didn’t really adequately um examine or discuss the zuder film they yeah they missed the lapel flip they missed the fact that they react at the same time you’re right about that yeah they they they didn’t do that did they now uh yeah and that it’s and it’s it’s it is I mean it’s a fact and then then and another thing is there’s the head snap uh which we’ll get into but that’s being denied right so there are two different lines of reasoning for denying it one is the tink Thompson it’s a blur illusion uh de motion blurring and then the other is uh a lot of people are saying this too but I’m not going to get into it too much is that it was due to limo limousine breaking uh we’re g to get into both of these um but first before we do that is it authentic yes it is um first of all how do you determine it’s authentic well one of the things is you you do have to rely on Expert uh testimony uh because uh most everybody out there even I’m not an expert when it comes to the K kod Chrome Kodak film um I know a lot about it I’m an imagy scientist um I know a lot about how this stuff works but I I don’t know the details on that film so you have to go to The Experts first of all and so Roland Zada has said that there’s no detectable evidence and manipulation IM image alteration on the zip prer in camera original film and all supporting evidence precludes any forgery there too so this is what he said he he because he was paid by the way to take a look at it and found nothing he found found all the markings were there it was his codex film produced and at that time period I think 1962 um or 1963 and and and it it’s it’s authentic uh also there’s an i Clan cha of custody now this David ran who’s no long he’s not a lone gunman guy uh read his book read his book he talks about the chain of custody um there is no chance for conspirators to do anything with it they never got a chance U and then zaper himself testified that uh that they are authentic and Camera original and first generation Co copies another thing is that coherent alter those they say co coherent meaning yeah you can go in and screw it up you can go in there and take the film and ruin it basically I mean it was 8 millimeters and Kennedy’s head on that fatal shot would have been was Tiny um you can go in there and try to mess it up but if you’re going to try to do something that’s coherent through a film to to meet some sort of preconceived notion about what happened before it happened or after or before you know what happened I mean it’s it’s it’s not possible um it was not possible in 1963 and not even trivial today and by the way it was a reversal film meaning that there was no negative the film actually got produced as was there’s not a film negative now what happens in the real world let’s say in the real world there was a conspiracy and they did this comp cockamamy thing they they sh have been broad daylight um what they would have done is they would have tried they would Seas they would have send the the gusto in get everybody’s camera films you know and because it would take a Gusto to do this basically and then destroy them um they wouldn’t have come up with this thing about trying to you know alter it and then finally this is me a philosophical question if the zpp film could be altered and was then how do we know the assassination even happened now you could say well you know you know Vince bully obviously doesn’t think it was needed to determine what happened right well that’s true we didn’t need the film to know that it happened but that isn’t what I’m talking about I’m talking about once you go in that rabbit hole of denying evidence that you don’t like uh then you can deny all of it you can deny everything in fact you you know they deny the autopsy they deny a lot of things um so you can deny everything you can deny the fact that the you could say that the media was in on it you can deny you could say that uh that they set it up that it was a contrived thing that happened uh you can come up with all these head hoc hypothesis the the whole thing was conted because Kennedy just wanted to to get out he he didn’t want he wanted a nice soft exit from the presidency and he ended up going to uh you know Aruba or something like that I don’t know yeah it’s it’s the only play left to conspiracy theorists because the evidence points to Oswald so okay we have to claim that’s planted and altered and faked that’s the point and once you go down that rabbit hole you can just do it everywhere and you go no then you’re just spinning your wheels and you’ve got nothing and that’s so so that’s just my philosophical question about it so yes the zpp Brut film is authentic sadly it shows uh the president being shot in the head graphically and gruly all right so um this is the materials here that we’re going to be looking at I just everybody knows this so it’s SE frame 32 12 and 313 I rendered them in Gray scale notice I put a scale on here I put that on there because it’s I’m trying to show this is a quantitative Endeavor uh what I’ve done is I’ve this this image is a matrix of numbers and the numbers I’ve got Grace scaled according to this scale here but so what I’ve got is a matrix of numbers here and and here as well it’s uh frame 313 that we have this uh what is claimed to be the um camera the the panning error due to to the fact that what’s happened is the The Limousines got a little in front of the camera now you so you got you got both of them by the way this woman is a little bit blurred here because she’s moving but you but you notice she’s a lot more blurred here uh that’s again so what’s happened is it’s a lot like Lee Harvey Oswalt shots what’s happened is because the limousine is orthogonal the the that the amount of tracking the linear the angular tracking is at the maximum point so it turns out it’s right here at this fatal moment that it was the most difficult to do the filming uh because the limousine has to take the most panning and then not only that but it’s on a Downs slope so if you notice he’s had trouble zaper had trouble keeping the limousine centered right I mean this Frame here is mostly all wasted on the on the lawn and we barely got them down here um if you were centering it JFK would have been more up would have been more up here um so so that’s all just matters effect so that so what’s happened here by the way this is not due to the gunshot this is not a startle error which be kind of more erratic this is just the limousine got a little bit ahead of him he had a little difficulty tracking it because this moment happened before he would even heard the sound I believe um certainly before he would have react maybe maybe he would have heard the sound but but uh he wouldn’t have reacted that fast and and one other thing too this is how you know it’s tracking error also is because these the sunglint here off the Chrome is horizontal it’s maybe one degree off of horizontal but it’s a totally horizontal thing so it just has to do with limousine got a little ahead of him as he was trying to hand along and it it was it got difficult all right so this shows them in the typical fashion the repeating animated uh jet file uh and you see a lot of these all over the place in the internet uh they’re in full color it’s very gory it’s some the reason why I rendered it in Gray scale by the way I mean one is because we’re just doing some photogrametry here but but another thing is because you know it’s it’s just very gory so you know you don’t need the go to to do the analysis um anyway you could see between the two frames that he has a forward head snap uh it’s clear as day and it was measured by Ting Thompson to be about 5 cmers uh you’ll notice though that the second frame blurs and you can kind of see that especially here you can also see it in John Connelly’s head you can kind of you can just kind to see it in other places uh that’s where the blur illusion comes in but however before we get to that I want to point out it’s not due to limo breaking because to get into physics again classical mechanics what we’re talking about here something called a fictitious force that happens from a decelerating frame of reference Newton’s laws apply in an inertial frame meaning that Newton’s Laws hold in the frame basically that’s what the initial frame is so so whenever you got a reference frame that’s accelerating and decelerating it’s not inertial anymore and what happens is fictitious force is going to arrive now you can get rid of the fictitious forces by using let’s say we use the the street pavement as our initial frame then what happens is it’s no longer it’s no longer fictitious forces uh but but but what happens is in this analysis is more convenient to use the limine as the as the frame of reference in which case then you end up with fictitious forces if it slows a fictitious Force though due to this in a deating reference frame means that everybody in the reference frame all the objects will behave in the same way and what that means is that their Center masses all react in the same way so you got a center mass in your head and one in your body and what happens is it would both snap and not only that but everybody in the limo would snap that way as well because there’s a lot of time that went through the between these two frames 50 milliseconds that’s a lot of time if you’re talking about you know narrowing down your your um scale your time scale if you have like a high-speed camera there’s a lot that can go on between those two that 50 milliseconds so there’s a lot of time between there and so if you’re GNA say that this is due to limo breaking then everything else in there is gonna be due to you’re gonna have the same thing happening I’m really hammering this home maybe I’m beinga a dead horse but there are people who claiming this is do limo limo breaking and it’s not one other thing too it’s 5 cm approximately in one frame that implies deceleration of the car by 2 miles per hour per frame or 40 mil hour per second so hot damn this this limousine can do a break it’s like going from zero to 40 in one second that’s that’s one uh sports car there so other words it’s it like there’s no breaking that’s going to cause that is what I’m also trying to say I mean if there was a breaking it’s not going to cause that much all right so anyway I I beat that to I’m sorry about that but I just feel like I have to to hammer it home so now what about the blur illusion we could see that it becomes very blurry here is that see see con’s head kind of goes is that what’s happening here so let’s take a look all right so what is that so it’s an ad hoc hypothesis the forward motioning of that head is due to blurring um extreme motion blurring can indeed cause Distortion in film images all right so this is why you know Paul hul is the one who said I should look into it I didn’t want to because I’m thinking it’s not necessary but but but he did point out you know this is these are I believe these these frames here from the Zep P film they’re frames uh 405 408 409 409 this is later in the film a part of the film that most people don’t care about um I believe Thompson includes these in his book to illustrate the point uh and it was something that I had to think of a little bit about because because I I looked at and well they do have a point here and that is that did you know so so what happened is after Kennedy was shot in the head then Z prud became quite unsteady and it was no longer just panning error he was just probably nervous as hell and I’m surprised he didn’t just drop the camera which I probably would have done um so so that that led to this sort of extreme blurring and if you notice the lamp post here is distorted uh and then there seems the white bleeding in on it and there’s a person in back of it here so don’t worry about this guy here back there so that’s what’s going on there but it’s sort of like um looks like it’s moved right so so that’s what the point was and so what’s what’s what’s interesting is this is a legitimate phenomenon you can have blurring creating um distortions I don’t want to call it illusion but distortions U but so the question is that’s what is that what was going on here so to to get to this I got a hold of Roland Zada and asked him about it and unfortunately he provided me exactly what I was looking for he provided me this this this kod chrome movie film specs um for that particular film and um it’s this page here the second page that I was most interested in providing me something exactly what I was looking for which is this curve here now I’m gonna go ahead and zoom in on that that’s what this is so I took that and I zoomed in in on it and then what I did is I digitize it now what is it it is a plot of the density of the film versus the log exposure in Lux seconds which is intensity seconds and what that means is intensity seconds just means that the the shutter opens the film is exposed to light coming in and it’s exposed over a period of time and it’s both the combination of the intensity of the light how bright it is along with how long it’s sustained so it’s a combination of both so so so if you have a like a a light that comes on very bright and goes off before the the shutter closes then that will register is less bright than if a is just on the whole time while the shutters open so so that’s what this is depicting so what I did is I took this and I digitized it so then I have I have my computer now so I got numbers in my computer density means it’s more opaque so the film is more opaque at lower exposure they have it in log rhythmic here I I then took it to to linear and this where you can kind of see it becomes nonlinear um so it’s a linear axis but the curves are nonlinear and so what’s happening is it’s saying that the film is opaque and it becomes um less it becomes less opaque as it’s exposed longer but it sort of like starts very fast and it tapers off that’s the What’s called the non- highspeed part of it the outdoor part it’s trying to make sure that it doesn’t saturate the film’s design so you don’t saturate then what I did is I took the gray scale so I averaged gray scale is just an average of those three colors here and I took the negative so now what happens is um it’s the opposite so now as exposure goes up um the U it becomes higher numbers and now I wanted to get rid of these numbers because these numbers don’t really mean anything now so I I turned it into what’s called brightness it’s a number from zero to one so so from lower exposure to higher exposure you end up from numbers of zero brightness so now it’s really making sense zero brightness means it’s going to be black and then we go up to White all right so and it has to do with how long again the the film is exposed I won’t go into all this in detail uh I don’t we won’t have time but this is just my methodology so what I did is I simulated the effect of the film response on motion blurring and then I assessed whether motion blurring can create the illusion of isolated motion let’s worry about this side more so what I did is I took that that response curve and I took it and I and took the brightness array that came to me from the zap prud film itself I converted it back to exposure and then I blurred the exposure by applying a box car filter horizontal so I blurred it and then I took the exposure back to brightness so what this is doing is simulating the effect of blurring according to a film that has an exposure curve that sort of is nonlinear that it responds to the light in a nonlinear fashion this is all the try to investigate the idea does this effect which can cause Distortion Like lamp posts against the with extreme you know the the camera was extremely um um unsteady at that point can that also cause the JFK effect and that this is the result so the left side is c312 and a blurred c312 so 312 and blur Z 312 what we’re looking for is do it create a head snap and the answer is no it does not you see a lot of the other stuff is very similar right you can see that these the the the the Chrome here becomes distorted and you see his head kind his head does what it does but everybody kind of blurs out and there’s no isolated motion on his head conversely or on the other hand also if we go over to the right what I’ve got is the Blurred 312 and z313 which is already blurred and now you notice this all looks quite the same they’re all blurred about the same way the only difference is just that I only had a horizontal blur where that PR had a little bit off about one degree off so that’s the only thing you could kind of notice here otherwise uh that all looks fine but then you go over to here and his head’s still snapping forward uh so it it there’s no there’s no blur illusion and that doesn’t explain it so so blur or not it’s his head that’s being hit
and bonus but wait there’s more but wait there’s more uh so I I just thought I’d talk about this a little bit so the there’s this thing on the internet that oh you know his head is blacked out the back so that’s part of the alterationist they went in there they knew within hours that there had to be D he was shot from the in the head from the front and there was a big blowout we have to cover it up so they they so so this bottom line is this whole thing that I just talk about explains what’s going on uh what’s happening is that there’s a point in the curve where if you don’t get enough exposure you don’t get enough intensity exposure uh you’ll end up with just a blackout right and and that that’s what’s happened here so all has happened here is his head’s in the shadow the sun’s on that side you’re facing the Sun and his head’s in Shadow and so it’s just it’s too dark because it really is in Shadow and by the way his back is also in Shadow it’s blacked up too but but you know details but but that’s what’s going on is just that there’s not been enough intensity uh seconds to to cause a reaction so it’s blacked right and and really that’s uh that’s all it is and uh this paper by Farid he actually modeled it and he showed the same thing use a 3D model to show you get the same effect and one other thing too is when it comes to photo fakery it’s nothing new there I’m not saying it can’t happen that you can’t do it but this is also extremely difficult to to fake shadows and then especially if it’s a 8 millimeter and his head is a tiny little part of the 8 millimeters it’s very difficult to fake this type of thing all right so that’s what the black patch is it’s simply the the the the it’s like today you can even take your your your camera phone if you take it out in the dark and you try to take a picture and there’s no lighting it comes out black and this is sort of the same thing the only difference here is you have a film response whereas with cameras you don’t have to worry about film all right so conclusion um this forward head stap again I didn’t Discover it all I did was analyze it um it was discovered by Rich fan I believe uh and it’s exactly what it appears to be it’s not due to illusion it’s not due to limo breaking it’s just a measured isolated forward movement of JFK’s head on the order of 5 Centimeters between two frames um in accordance with principles of classical Dynamics It could only originate from an impulse from a directional real Force real Force means not fictitious Force but a real Force um his his head suffers a fatal wound so the force is due to a bullet impact uh and that’s only consistent with a impact that’s going from back to front uh so it’s it’s him being hit and had and that if you do a an in-depth dynamical calculation which is what I done had done in a certain way using forces I did I I treated the skull and the soft tissue in certain ways you end up with a movement on the same order of magnitude about 5 cenm so it so what’s observed agrees with what physics would predict um so the Z film provides independent Cooperative forensic evidence that JFK was shot in the head from the rear and I believe that’s all I have well that’s a great presentation I mean I really really appreciate that that’s fantastic I mean what what what again going back to the warrant commission well the first the first generation critics I mean it used to be the first generation critics would take all the evidence the 26 volumes the zuder film or whatever c399 and they would argue the evidence and the problem is now is the ne the new generation of of critics do the opposite we we we do not want to argue the evidence we’re going to tell you the evidence is phony planted fake and whatever that’s the only it’s it’s a whole new way of arguing and it means you can’t really discuss the the the assassination because they reject all the evidence it’s extremely frustrating you can’t Bec is impossible to to discuss it at that point it’s uh the analogy I always like to use is that it’s like um it’s like talking about how many angels can dance in the head of a pen you know arguing with each other about that um you’re G to get nowhere and so soon as people start denying it then you can’t go I just say well how do you know that he was assassinated then and then they think that’s oh I’m not no but no but You’ gone down that path and and there are people by the way believe it or not I come up with that crazy thing but then there are some out there who think that is what happened that he wasn’t assassinated yeah or or people saying Jackie Jackie shot him or whatever you know really gets really yeah yeah Mrs Kennedy you know with her poison dart gun Ting Thompson’s not responding to any of any of the critiques of of his book yeah I noticed that he there was that interview recently that was circulated on the social media I I listened to it and he um he had a sympathetic interviewer who didn’t bring anything up like that no hard questions the only hard questions were or what You Know What’s the magnitude of the conspiracy that would have to go into doing all this and he was very uncomfortable with those questions I could see it um because because he’s not IR he’s not irrational but he’s irrational about this uh but but he because I could see that he’s thinking oh my God that’s like Fringe you know I’d have to be saying that you know everybody’s in on it he doesn’t want to go there he’s wants to say well no all I proved is that he was shot by more than one gunman and I didn’t we’re going to leave it go at that but we’re like you can’t just leave it go at that I mean you can’t just say that and say okay well I’m done you know you you have to you know okay what who was the gun you know you have to you go further than that he doesn’t want to do that it’s too bad well look it’s this is all uh fascinating stuff and there’s still a lot more to discuss uh about um uh the head wound and stuff youve because you’ve written so much and so obviously a third a third uh session is going to be upcoming in the near future uh but thank you much it’s been been amazing okay great Fred I’m glad uh glad that hopefully we uh everybody’s uh enjoys this who’s watching it okay thank you very much and uh we’ll see you soon for another edition of on the trail of delusion
mattkprovideo 