www.mattkprovideo.com/2026/01/17/episode-28-on-the-trail-of-delusion-gus-russo/
This the the twenty eighth episode of JFK expert and author Fred Litwin’s documentary podcast series “On the Trail of Delusion.”
LINKS:
www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gus_Russo
https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com
“The Sordid History of Cuba’s Spy Apparatus”
cuban-exile.com/doc_451-475/doc0451.html
http://www.mattkprovideo.com/2025/11/27/cia-disinfo-videos/
Episode 1, Abe Zapruder:
These videos were shot with an iPhone and edited with Adobe After Effects and Adobe Premiere.
I created the lower third super in Adobe Photoshop and animated with Adobe After Effects.
Episode 2, What Lee Bowers saw from the railroad tower:
The opening and closing motion graphics were created with Adobe Photoshop and Adobe After Effects.
Episode 3, the actual Lee Bowers crash site:
Episode 4:
Episode 5:
These videos were written by Canadian author Fred Litwin as a satire on the numerous conspiracy theories about the assassination oh President John F. Kennedy on November 22, 1963.
Fred Litwin’s’ blog and links to his books:
Fred Litwin is not really a Central Intelligence Agency Disinformation agent.
Fred Litwin is not really a Central Intelligence Agency employee at all.
At least I don’t think he is. Or maybe that’s just what THEY want us to think!
Episode 6:
Episode 7:
www.mattkprovideo.com/2025/08/29/delusion-episode-23-dan-evans/
On The Trail of Delusion, Episode 23, Daniel Evans
Lifelong JFK Assassination researcher and Dallas area Tour guide Dan Evans tells Fred Litwin about his journey into JFKA obsession and what he tells visitors what he thinks about Conspiracy Theories.
Countdown to Dallas, Ruth Paine’s House
www.mattkprovideo.com/2025/07/01/countdown-to-dallas-ruth-paines-house/
The night before the assassination Oswald came home with his co-worker from the depository, Wesley Buell Frasier.
It was thursday november 21st.
Oswald never visited Marina on Thursdays . He always came home on friday
The reason he came home on Thursday was to ostensibly try and woo Marina back into moving in with him.
Oswald even told her that ” if you agree to come back with me i will get an apartment in dallas tomorrow”
Marina rebuffed him.
It’s believed at that point of course Oswald went to his other option which was to retrieve his gun.
Probably around 9:00 or so, it’s believed oswald went into the garage to fetch his rifle.
Let’s go in.
It was kept in a blanket similar to this one
This is not the the exact blanket of course but a blanket similar to that
oswald’s rifle was disassembled in
at the book depository the brown wrapping paper bag to conceal that
So he came into the garage here took the pieces of the rifle out of the blanket.
Slipped them into the bag
After that he probably left the package in here
Some historians think it probably would have been too risky for Oswald to bring the package into the house.
There was no reason to he could easily retrieve it and more safely retrieve it the next morning.
Now Oswald went to bed before Marina did
She finished some house chores then took a long bath went to bed with oswald
It was her belief that oswald was still awake at one point
She touched his leg he shoved her leg away apparently the next morning on the bedstand as you can see here this is a replica of the china cup that Marina brought with her from the soviet union .
According to her, Oswald that morning placed his wedding ring and approximately $187.
He told marina then that she could use the money to buy the washing machine that she wanted.
Oswald then went into the garage, according to the official version of events, picked up his rifle and then walked down the block to Wesley Buell Fraziers house
So Oswald retrieved his rifle from the garage walked not too far
about a block down west fifth street
this is where we are crossed the corner of west fifth and westbrook came here to the home of his workmate Wesley Buell Fraziers
Oswald came here with his package stood outside the garage
Here this window is the kitchen of the Randall home.
Linnie Mae Randall was doing the dishes in front of the sink.
She later testified that she looked out the window saw Lee harvey oswald with the long package.
www.mattkprovideo.com/2025/06/06/countdown-to-dallas-episode-5-was-the-parade-route-changed/
Countdown to Dallas, Episode 5, Was the Parade Route changed?
Countdown to Dallas, Episode 5, Was the Parade Route changed?
One claim of conspiracy theorists is that the motorcade route was deliberately moved to ensure that the Presidents car went down Elm street (underneath the depository) instead of Main Street
Here, as you can see, that is not possible, because of the concrete abuttment between the two streets
This is Main Street here,. Over here is Elm Street
Today, as in 1963, it is physically impossible to do that.
The only way to get to Stemmons freeway to the Trade Mart again was to go down Elm Street.
And now you know the rest of the story.
More stories on the assassination, and the events leading up to it,
in my latest book,
Countdown to Dallas,
Available everywhere books are sold.
There is also a Countdown to Dallas Podcast produced by Evergreen Podcasting that is also available everywhere
www.mattkprovideo.com/2025/06/05/14030/
One claim that conspiracists often make about the Kennedy Assassination is that a second person was spotted on the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository minutes before the shooting proof, they claim, of a conspiracy
I’m Paul Brandus, author of Countdown to Dallas, and just minutes before the shooting there was indeed a second person on the sixth floor just steps from Lee Harvey Oswald and his sniper’s perch.
but this does not mean there was a conspiracy
Here now the rest of the story:
Around 5 minutes to 12 the Kennedy motorcade was underway headed for downtown Dallas.
At the depository, employees excited that the President would soon pass by, knocked off early for lunch.
as he was heading downstairs one employee Bonnie Ray Williams said he saw Oswald
at the depository employees excited that the president would soon pass by knocked off early for lunch
as he was heading downstairs one employee Bonnie Ray Williams said he saw Oswald on the fifth or sixth floor he wasn’t sure which
but moments later another employee Charles Given went to the sixth floor to get his cigarettes
there he saw Oswald
they had a brief conversation
Given said “Aren’t you going downstairs it’s near lunchtime.”
Oswald “No sir.”
Given left now minutes after that brief encounter Bonnie Ray Williams also returned to the sixth floor
“why?”
“To watch the presidential motorcade.”
At the time everyone was talking like they was going to watch from the sixth floor
Williams testified and while he waited for his buddies Williams ate his lunch a chicken sandwich and bottle of Dr pepper
he remembers sitting in front of the third or fourth window
Williams recalled quote “I couldn’t see too much of the sixth floor because the books at this time were stacked so high if there was anyone else up there on the sixth floor,”
Williams neither saw nor heard anyone
now here’s where it gets interesting
down on Houston Street a young man Arnold Roland was standing with his wife Barbara
looking around his eyes drifted up to the sixth floor of the depository
there in the corner window he saw a man holding a rifle with a telescopic site
roland assumed that this was a Secret Service agent there to protect the president
so it never occurred to him to point this man out to a nearby police officer
but Oswald was not the only person Roland saw on the sixth floor
his wandering eye also saw what he described as ” a colored man a few windows away”
this was Bonnie Ray Williams eating his lunch
now the other guys that he was going to watch the parade with
James Garman and Harold Norman were their names
had earlier been down on the sidewalk but decided the view would be better from the fifth floor of the depository
why the fifth floor?
because the sixth floor here shown that day was a jungle of boxes
by now as Garman recalled it’s between 12:20 and 12:25 just minutes before the assassination they were soon joined by Williams who had finished his lunch
leaving this greasy bag and empty soda bottle near the window
bonnie Ray Williams had been so close to Oswald while he ate that police and the media later thought the garbage had been Oswald’s
a month after the assassination this book published by United Press International and American Heritage repeated this mistake writing
in the caption quote “The sniper had dined on fried chicken and pop while waiting patiently to shoot the president.”
One report said “Wrong.”
But it does show just how close how tantalizingly close Bonnie Ray Williams sat to the man who was about to murder the president
this proximity helps explain why two other men on the street here at the southwest corner of Houston and Elm saw Oswald sitting perfectly still
their names Bob Edwards and Ronald Fiser
moments before the motorcade appeared Edwards spotting Oswald told Fiser quote “Look at that guy there in that window he looks like he’s uncomfortable.”
Were words to that effect
fischer chimed in quote “This man held my attention for 10 or 15 seconds all the time I watched him he never moved his head he never moved anything just was there transfixed
he looked to be 22 or 24 years old.”
It’s likely that Oswald who was 24 never moved because Bonnie Ray Williams as we’ve established was just feet away eating his lunch
meanwhile Oswald was also seen by yet another man who sat here tantalizingly close to the window his name was Howard Brennan
here’s Brennan at that spot in a recreation of November 22nd
he saw Oswald in the sixth floor window right above James Gar Harold Norman and Bonnie Ray Williams
who had by now joined his buddies on the fifth floor
“I saw this man on the sixth floor,” Brennan later testified he added “There was no other person on that floor that ever came to the window that I noticed there were people on the next floor down which is the fifth floor colored guys.”
The time frame here is about 12:22 which lines up with the Williams testimony
Brennan could give exact times because from his vantage point he could see the big clock the famous Hertz sign that in 1963 stood on the roof of the depository
now let’s go back to Ronald Fiser about 30 seconds before the shooting
30 seconds fischer looked up again an affidavit he gave to Dallas police that very day said
“I looked up at the window and noticed that he seemed to be laying down or in a funny position anyway because all I could see was his head.”
When the presidential car turned left onto Elm Street there was but one person on the sixth floor here in the southeast corner window not two as some conspirators have alleged
and now you know the rest of the story
more stories on the assassination and the events leading up to it in my latest book
Countdown to Dallas
available everywhere books are sold
there’s also a Countdown to Dallas podcast produced by Evergreen Podcasting that is also available everywhere
mattkprovideo.com/2025/06/05/countdown-to-dallas-episode-2-the-backyard-photos/
Countdown to Dallas, Episode 2, The Backyard Photos
These video episodes have now moved to their own YouTube Channel!
http://www.mattkprovideo.com/2025/06/05/countdown-to-dallas-episode-1-new-channel/
Transcript
The President’s car is now turning on to Elm Street and it will be only a matter of minutes before he arrives at the trademark
[Music] On October 14th, 1963 Lee Harvey Oswald applied and got a job at a place called the Texas School Book Depository
Here’s how it looked at the time
A nondescript red brick building perched on the southeast corner of Houston and Elm Streets
It offered a magnificent view of a place called Daily Plaza.
Here’s the building today
Now the question of just how Oswald got the job just 5 weeks before President Kennedy’s motorcade drove right by has been a longstanding question for those studying the assassination
Some think it’s fishy
Surely they say proof of a conspiracy
I’m Paul Brandus a longtime White House-based journalist speaker at seven presidential libraries
My latest is Countdown to Dallas.
In Countdown to Dallas I tell the rest of the story about Oswald and the depository
And for one surprising twist you might not know about stick around to the end of this short video
That mid-October 1963 story starts here in the Dallas suburb of Irving where Oswald’s wife Marina and their 21-month-old daughter June were living with a woman named Ruth Payne.
Marina was also days away from giving birth to her second daughter Marina the young Soviet
Immigrants a woman she met through the local immigrants
Marina was the victim of spousal abuse
Lee was a wifebeater hitting Marina on a regular basis
Ruth who wanted to improve her Russian took Marina in
That’s the backdrop
Oswald living on his own was also unemployed
He had just gotten back from Mexico City after a futile effort to get a visa to travel to Cuba
He needed a job badly
On the 14th Ruth Marina and some other women in the neighborhood were having coffee and the subject of Lee’s unemployment came up
Oswald had several job prospects
One was at a bakery
the other driving a truck but Lee didn’t know how to drive
One woman at that coffee Lenny May Randall mentioned that her brother Wesley Bule Frasier had just gotten a job at the Depository in downtown Dallas
She thought they might need an extra man
Now Marina Oswald’s English was poor
Lee did not allow her to learn it
So Ruth Payne called the depository and spoke with a boss there
His name Roy Truly
Truly said yes he could use another man to fill orders for school books
Tell Oswald to come down and apply
Now you have to remember what a pathetic work record Oswald had.
He’d been fired from two jobs in just the past 6 months
And a potential third employer checked on a reference who said Oswald was not a good employee
Oswald was unwanted
His skills were minimal
but a menial job filling boxes with books Oswald filled out this job application
His address was a lie
Said he’d lived in Dallas continuously
That was a lie
he had just gotten out of the Marines and was honorably discharged
Two more lies
that he had been on his last job for three years
Another lie
Five lies on one page
It’s a reflection of Lee Harvey Oswald’s habit of lying about well just about everything
But unlike other potential employers Roy Truly did not check on any of this
It was just a menial job after all
So Oswald lucked out
So that’s how Oswald got his job at the Depository
A group of suburban women having coffee
lacking the skills to work in a bakery or drive a truck
having poor references that might have resulted in work elsewhere
on and on
It took a series of small things for this job to work out
Now I mentioned one final twist to this story that may surprise you
I’ll get to that in a second
But it’s also important to remember this
When Oswald got the job President Kennedy’s visit to Texas had not been finalized
A trip had been announced but the final decision on Dallas would not be made until a month later
November 14th when the location for Kennedy speech at the Trademart was set
That decision that location was made by none other than Ken O’Donnell the president’s top White House aid
The Secret Service had recommended other locations
Other parts of town which would have meant different motorcade routes
Conspiracy theorists who are sure that Oswald’s job was some kind of setup
that he was somehow placed in the depository can never explain how all of these little things unconnected ranging from suburban women having coffee to President Kennedy’s own right-hand man picking that final location occurred
And here’s the final twist to this story
You might not know that in 1963 the Texas School Book Depository had another location at 1917 North Houston Street.
Roy Truly the boss nearly assigned Oswald to that location.
Had he done so Lee Harvey Oswald would have been nowhere near Dealey Plaza on the day of the president’s visit.
Great tragedies often take a series of small and seemingly unconnected events to occur
This was one of them
There are other stories to tell about Oswald his life
that very different era
decades of presidential security and the attitude of numerous presidents towards it
And also the science of cognitive dissonance
why humans are wired to think and process information and data the way they do
and why this fuels the beliefs that so many people have in assorted conspiracy theories
Not just the Kennedy assassination
but everything from Pearl Harbor to the moon landing to 9/11 even Princess Diana’s car crash
The science behind our beliefs that’s also explored
All of this and much more can be found in my latest book Countdown to Dallas and in a podcast of the same name Both are available everywhere
www.mattkprovideo.com/2025/04/30/least-of-my-brothers-april-25-2025-at-san-antonio-college/
Jesus said: “whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.” (Matt. 25:40)
On April 27, 2025, at noon I showed my documentary “The Least of My Brothers” at the RTF Building at San Antonio College. This is the intro before I showed the film, and then I took questions from the students and teachers who showed up.
This is the promo video I made for the event (a re -edit of a much earlier promo)
imdb listing:
www.imdb.com/title/tt1825162/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0_tt_8_nm_0_in_0_q_least%2520of%2520my%2520broth
Wikipedia page on Vidor, Texas.
This is iPhone video of the intro and Question and Answer session after I showed the documentary:
Transcript of the introduction:
Welcome to our kickoff event of the 2025 multicultural conference as part of Fiesta
this is a documentary screening of a film called
The Least of My Brothers
and the filmmaker is here with us today
This is Matthew Kordelski
He is a graduate of the film program at Rowan University in New Jersey and the 2D animation program at Austin Community College
He runs his own production company for films motion graphics animation podcasts and commercial videos
He has an animated YouTube channel about dogs I love it
It’s very fun Um
He spent 5 years researching the murder of Bill Simpson which is what this film is about Bill Simpson was the first African-American to desegregate the sundown town of Vidor Texas He did not find the answers he thought he would find In this documentary he demonstrates that close examination and inquiry often helps us discover that there is more than meets the eye
So without further ado
Matt Kordelski any questions for our filmmaker today
yeah You know it’s funny You and I had earlier a minute ago were talking about Orson Wells
And one time Orson Wells was giving a talk and nobody showed up and the announcer said “Orson Wells has done this,he’s done that, he’s done that, he’s been an actor a writer a playwright.”
And Orson Wells comes on and goes
“I wish there was as many of you as there are of me”
But anyway uh anybody ever heard of the story of Vidor Texas and what happened there
you have from me or from Do you heard of it uh no I mean I heard about it when it happened It was a shocking horrific crime in the National Navy Okay Not too far from where I would live at the time Anybody heard of a Sundown Town oh yeah
All right
A little bit of backstory
This was made in the early 1990s In the early 1990s for good or for bad was the golden era of trash media
I’m going to say a man’s name that not so long ago if you said this guy’s name in San Antonio you would provoke a riot
Howard Stern he was the king of trash radio
You remember that okay Um he was the king of trash radio
Just there was no rules Whatever you could do to get attention he did it
Jerry Springer on TV was the same thing and all these guys They set the bar pretty low in terms of quality but they set the bar pretty high in terms of ratings
It was completely insane
People you would neve, r have on your TV show Ku Klux Klansmen, Nazis neo-Nazis
and the host did not want to make it a civil discussion They deliberately would get a Klansmen and somebody from Lewis Farrakhan’s group and hoping they’d fight It was insane Now into this environment they decided to desegregate the white housing complex in Vidor Texas
not long after that uh an African-American man moved in and then he got tired of the harassment and the day he moved out he was murdered I heard that and I came to a presumption that surely somebody from the clan killed him I spent five years digging and digging and digging I’ll let we’ll talk about this afterwards I did not find the answer I thought he would But the theme of this festival is more than meets the eye Keep an open mind Don’t make a snap judgment on just because that’s a bad guy who’s done a history of bad things Maybe they didn’t do that thing But hey we’ll talk about it afterwards Thank you for coming
Transcript of the Q&A
All right. Thank you for sharing your video
We can now go to a Q&A.
Can you feel like asking the filmmaker?
And I actually want to start if it’s okay.
Yeah.
Anything that’s. You must have
had to talk to a lot of residents.
Her?
Yes.
Including some pretty despicable racists
and others.
Yeah. Yes.
So how do you.
That was my first song.
As I was watching this again was.
How do you engage with someone who
you’re totally opposed to in terms
of what they stand for?
And you saw the movie documentary
to see some of to talk to them.
How do you measure?
It was a lot of discipline.
I had to try in my usual.
I mean, I was talking to Klansmen
and I was on phone calls
with neo-Nazis and, you know, racist
people, and I promised I’d be fair.
And then I think I was I mean, I couldn’t
it would have been the easiest thing
in the world to cut this, to make it
look like maybe the Klan did it.
There’s enough circumstantial.
What if I if I could have done that,
I promised them I would,
and they were kind of looking like rosy.
Yeah. But, yeah, I just get.
I need to buy me a little light and start
reading about different races, different ethnic groups.
In other questions, friends.
I mean, at some point, somebody, one of your one of your sources
that you recorded said,
well, there’s no violence here against black people.
It’s it’s just threats. The threats are pretty bad.
I mean, that’s not but,
you know, like to stand on, my true.
It’s not, it’s not.
And, if you’re right, it’s
like one thing I was surprised, making is,
was when I was talking to Bill Haley,
somebody got help.
You got trouble for making threats,
but they were rather nonsensical threats.
Somebody said, I’m going to get a load of
dynamite and blow up the housing complex.
You go up and saying that
even though he never had
the dynamite, there’s no evidence
he was really going to do this.
But threat of force.
Now, I’m not a lawyer.
I support you, but yeah, you’re right
that that’s no excuse.
I mean, pretty frequently
that you can’t yell fire in a theater
and you can’t threaten to blow up
in front of a solid point.
That’s pretty bad, too.
And by other companies, I mean the bad guy
here seems to be the media.
You know, the media come in and they’re,
you know, how they’re married or whatever.
But it would be better if we heard, like, you know, actual news clips that would substantiate that.
The one sort of negative thing
that we have about me
is the evidence that we have is the, the, you show the put the plan to
I fair harassment and current affairs
and you know and and
and they came up empty
and they wouldn’t let me use any of that footage.
But and so,
I mean, that’s pretty bad, but,
you know, if if the enemy is the media,
it seems like we need
to have those headlines or whatever
or clips or descriptions,
you know, specific incidences,
the media, you know, pushing a dishonest.
Okay.
You’re you’re right about that.
00:02:54:41 – 00:02:59:00
And I, I thought I made the point
that I’m not saying there was no racist
00:02:59:00 – 00:03:03:23
so racism or trouble there, but I’m saying
that I think the media exaggerated
00:03:03:39 – 00:03:06:07
and that that provide evidence
for the media.
00:03:06:07 – 00:03:09:33
Oh, yeah, but I couldn’t
I mean, there’s you can argue all day.
00:03:09:50 – 00:03:11:41
So the TV should have stayed away.
00:03:11:41 – 00:03:13:52
They shouldn’t have covered. It was good.
00:03:13:52 – 00:03:14:53
Is that the solution?
00:03:14:53 – 00:03:16:50
No, I mean, I, I wrestle with that, like.
00:03:16:50 – 00:03:18:04
Okay, you make a very good point.
00:03:18:04 – 00:03:21:08
No, I been let me back up and say
I thought it was a film.
00:03:21:20 – 00:03:23:42
And I said in the beginning,
oh, yeah, I heard all about this.
00:03:23:42 – 00:03:25:16
No, I had not heard anything about it.
00:03:25:16 – 00:03:28:50
What I thought we were going to hear about
is the same as next up in YouTube.
00:03:28:50 – 00:03:30:14
And there on the screen behind you.
00:03:31:35 – 00:03:32:51
Jasper was.
00:03:32:51 – 00:03:33:54
So that was Jasper.
00:03:33:54 – 00:03:35:47
That’s Jasper. Okay, so I was confused.
00:03:35:47 – 00:03:36:50
Did you have the time in me?
00:03:36:50 – 00:03:38:22
This everybody, when he got the joke
00:03:38:22 – 00:03:41:34
that Ross just moved away from fighter
to get away from the Klan.
00:03:41:36 – 00:03:44:34
I got
I think we got a stage town. Ha ha ha.
00:03:44:34 – 00:03:45:51
Jasper and I made it.
00:03:45:51 – 00:03:48:06
People got the joke. I mean,
and he really did do that.
00:03:48:06 – 00:03:50:55
That really did happen.
Yeah, yeah. Oh. He didn’t.
00:03:50:55 – 00:03:53:44
So you you opened my eyes here to you.
00:03:53:44 – 00:03:55:43
Okay. You know, you think about.
00:03:55:43 – 00:03:58:43
Do we know what happened to the old lady
with that?
00:03:59:31 – 00:04:00:49
I don’t think she’s still alive.
00:04:00:49 – 00:04:03:23
She never paid. Who was a paper dancer?
They knew.
00:04:03:23 – 00:04:07:31
They they you had to pay X amount of money
to these people that you bother,
00:04:07:31 – 00:04:10:30
but they you. She was never gonna pay
to take your judgment.
00:04:10:30 – 00:04:12:44
I don’t know how she tried to compensate.
00:04:12:44 – 00:04:13:56
Right, exactly. Exactly.
00:04:13:56 – 00:04:15:53
And they knew that? Yes.
00:04:15:53 – 00:04:18:04
So. But, So the the, the,
00:04:19:15 – 00:04:21:46
the two black women on the fourth
for the family
00:04:21:46 – 00:04:25:22
who moved into the white thing,
did they really have trouble?
00:04:25:27 – 00:04:27:20
They they couldn’t
find any employment. Right.
00:04:27:20 – 00:04:29:26
Nobody would give a job. Applications.
00:04:29:26 – 00:04:32:19
What are you doing? Applying that.
There was some tension there between.
00:04:32:19 – 00:04:35:20
I agree, but I would point out that
that’s what they say happened.
00:04:35:20 – 00:04:38:24
I couldn’t corroborate that, but I one.
00:04:38:24 – 00:04:39:02
Why would they lie?
00:04:39:02 – 00:04:41:09
I can’t figure I mean,
if somebody was offering them a job,
00:04:41:09 – 00:04:44:50
you know, they, they say that’s what
happened at a reasonably they’re lying.
00:04:44:50 – 00:04:46:28
They never did find work environments.
00:04:46:28 – 00:04:48:01
And we told them,
why are you even applying?
00:04:48:01 – 00:04:51:01
This is our
00:04:51:23 – 00:04:52:18
yeah.
00:04:52:18 – 00:04:53:12
Your question.
00:04:53:12 – 00:04:53:51
Yeah, yeah.
00:04:53:51 – 00:04:57:33
And this shows
the nuances and complexities like,
00:04:57:49 – 00:05:01:34
you know, they’re they’re they’re
there was there was tension
00:05:01:34 – 00:05:04:34
by the there, there, there could have been
I mean, there were threats.
00:05:05:20 – 00:05:09:25
There is this woman, apparently
may not have been able to find a job.
00:05:10:44 – 00:05:11:13
So, I
00:05:11:13 – 00:05:14:29
mean, there could have been something
there, but.
00:05:14:29 – 00:05:17:40
And what I found out after I made the move
as we cut this, like, five
00:05:17:40 – 00:05:20:52
times, is by the fifth or sixth version
I made, I kept was working.
00:05:20:52 – 00:05:21:59
It was like two hours long.
00:05:21:59 – 00:05:24:35
I could cut you down and blah, blah, blah.
00:05:24:35 – 00:05:26:18
The two women who left Vidor
00:05:26:18 – 00:05:29:23
Ironically, Bill Simpson left fire
because he feared violence.
00:05:29:23 – 00:05:31:58
Sure. And he met with violence
his first night out.
00:05:31:58 – 00:05:33:54
And the two women who left fire,
00:05:33:54 – 00:05:36:54
I heard they moved to a housing complex
in Houston and got robbed.
00:05:37:32 – 00:05:39:47
Oh, wow. Like they were.
They were a target.
00:05:39:47 – 00:05:43:10
I heard they they they won
with being the victim of urban violence
00:05:43:10 – 00:05:44:31
because they were killed.
They werent killed but
00:05:44:31 – 00:05:50:00
They robbed the the
the other personal
thing I was gonna mention, is that I,
00:05:51:00 – 00:05:53:41
I saw well, reporters is Darlene Dorsey.
00:05:53:41 – 00:05:55:15
Is she here in San Antonio?
I’ve heard that.
00:05:55:15 – 00:05:58:40
Yeah, she
she is now Darlene Dorsey Pickens.
00:05:58:40 – 00:06:00:57
And she used to work at a TV station.
00:06:00:57 – 00:06:05:34
I used to work,
so I know her so online as I was watching,
00:06:05:40 – 00:06:09:11
so, like, I should I looked up Darlene
Dorsey invited me to this.
00:06:09:36 – 00:06:11:06
Yeah, because I spoke to her on the phone.
00:06:11:06 – 00:06:13:33
I never need to get her on camera.
00:06:13:33 – 00:06:14:04
I’m gonna.
00:06:14:04 – 00:06:15:52
I think I took a picture, a screenshot.
00:06:15:52 – 00:06:17:55
I’m hoping it comes out of the same
when I.
00:06:17:55 – 00:06:20:11
I follow her friends on Facebook.
00:06:20:11 – 00:06:23:11
Okay, I’m going to second
guess what I saw you,
00:06:23:31 – 00:06:26:18
you know, on this documentary
and see what she says.
00:06:26:18 – 00:06:27:55
Yeah. Dorsey, I heard she moved to San Antonio
00:06:29:50 – 00:06:31:04
Anyone else?
00:06:31:04 – 00:06:32:02
Two questions.
00:06:32:02 – 00:06:33:51
What inspired you
to make this documentary?
00:06:33:51 – 00:06:34:45
And how did you.
00:06:34:45 – 00:06:37:11
I never got the hint that you were biased…
00:06:37:11 – 00:06:38:53
through out the documentary?
00:06:38:53 – 00:06:41:37
So how did you maintain
00:06:41:37 – 00:06:44:24
the professionalism of this?
00:06:44:24 – 00:06:45:35
It wasn’t in your head. What if.
00:06:45:35 – 00:06:50:23
I mean, I heard the story and back,
and then, I suppose this is still true.
00:06:50:23 – 00:06:53:11
It is really true. In the 1990s,
it was scandal of the week.
00:06:53:11 – 00:06:54:02
It was outrage of the week
00:06:54:02 – 00:06:56:22
The whole country got worked up over something,
00:06:56:22 – 00:06:57:25
that’s all you’re talking about.
00:06:57:25 – 00:06:59:02
And you move on to something else
you to do.
00:06:59:02 – 00:07:01:19
You young people, is that still true today?
00:07:01:19 – 00:07:02:47
Somewhat. Okay.
00:07:02:47 – 00:07:05:05
Well it happened and I just
everybody assumed
00:07:05:05 – 00:07:07:31
they’re going to make a movie,
that we’re going to make a TV movie.
00:07:07:31 – 00:07:10:07
It was going to be a documentary
and nobody did it.
00:07:10:07 – 00:07:11:16
And I thought, well, I should.
00:07:12:17 – 00:07:14:41
And it took me 5 years
00:07:14:41 – 00:07:17:39
Anybody here RTF Majors?
00:07:17:39 – 00:07:21:00
Well, anyway, nowadays
you could make a whole movie
00:07:21:00 – 00:07:23:51
like this on your phone,
and it would probably look better.
00:07:23:51 – 00:07:26:10
Sound better
00:07:26:10 – 00:07:26:58
There is parts of this movie that make me cringe
00:07:26:58 – 00:07:29:29
Oh, this is awful.
I want to do better, blah blah blah.
00:07:29:29 – 00:07:32:29
I was using BetaCam SP, huge TV camera
00:07:33:05 – 00:07:35:29
and I was working for video companies.
00:07:35:29 – 00:07:37:03
And on the weekends
I would take the camera,
00:07:37:03 – 00:07:39:30
go do some work to find people.
00:07:39:30 – 00:07:40:33
You know, I didn’t live in Vidor
00:07:40:33 – 00:07:45:12
I was living in Austin
So I had to drive to Vidor. Meet people,
Interview them. Come back
00:07:45:12 – 00:07:49:38
and I cut it together and there was like
a two hour version and everybody hated it.
00:07:49:38 – 00:07:51:53
I cut down,
00:07:51:53 – 00:07:54:02
cut out a lot of the repetition.
00:07:54:02 – 00:07:58:59
And at one point there’s amazing new
technology of Mini DV Cameras came out.
Remember those?
00:08:00:13 – 00:08:02:04
Well anyway, it was picture quality
00:08:02:04 – 00:08:05:04
pretty much equivalent to a BetaCam SP
and I see what the consumer would buy it.
00:08:05:18 – 00:08:06:14
So I reshot.
00:08:06:14 – 00:08:09:28
So if you know some of the interviews,
the people are older
00:08:09:32 – 00:08:12:26
and the camera style is a little different.
I did that in Mini DV
00:08:12:26 – 00:08:15:10
And, I mean, I, I wish it was way
00:08:15:10 – 00:08:19:59
they talk about how you can bump something up to 4K,
but now I had I made professional
00:08:21:04 – 00:08:25:35
During MOST of this, I’d say about 75, 85% of this.
00:08:25:36 – 00:08:29:53
I still thought I was going to find
something
00:08:30:29 – 00:08:34:19
to blame this on the Klan or neo-Nazis
or a white person from Vidor
00:08:35:44 – 00:08:37:03
75% of the way through.
00:08:37:03 – 00:08:39:30
I still thought the Klan did it
00:08:39:30 – 00:08:45:16
Even though I found no evidence
00:08:45:37 – 00:08:47:45
Absence of evidence is not
evidence of absence.
00:08:47:45 – 00:08:50:30
I still couldn’t
shake that loose from my head.
00:08:50:30 – 00:08:52:06
What about that to the very end?
00:08:52:06 – 00:08:56:07
And then realize that there’s two black guys
spending their lives in jail?
00:08:56:08 – 00:08:59:32
They never said anything about
“the Klan put us up to thisâ€
00:08:59:32 – 00:09:01:00
And, before.
00:09:01:00 – 00:09:02:26
Yeah, that’s what I can.
00:09:02:26 – 00:09:05:33
I talked to
there’s people who wouldn’t appear on camera, but
00:09:05:33 – 00:09:09:20
would talk to me on the phone of the FBI guy
Ron Kelly
00:09:09:20 – 00:09:12:02
He wouldn’t appear on Camera
But he talked to me on the phone.
00:09:12:02 – 00:09:13:30
Judge William William Justice.
00:09:13:30 – 00:09:14:40
He’s the one who started all this.
00:09:14:40 – 00:09:15:50
When you desegregated the housing complexes
00:09:15:50 – 00:09:18:25
you know, he talked to you on the phone
a couple times.
00:09:18:25 – 00:09:21:38
I spoke to the author of a book
called Sundown Towns I spoke to.
00:09:21:42 – 00:09:23:39
Mayor Woods of Vidor on the phone.
00:09:23:39 – 00:09:26:39
She didn’t want to appear in it
but she spoke to me and a couple.
00:09:26:45 – 00:09:28:32
And then the pastor of the church,
00:09:28:32 – 00:09:30:55
one of the churches Bill SImpson went to
he talked me on the phone.
00:09:30:55 – 00:09:34:29
I kind of realized
I’’m wrong. Its NOT the Klan.
They didnt do this.
00:09:36:04 – 00:09:36:22
Do you think
00:09:36:22 – 00:09:39:22
they still contributed to the general
00:09:40:07 – 00:09:41:53
cultural violence and environment?
00:09:41:53 – 00:09:43:37
Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely.
00:09:43:37 – 00:09:45:18
They stoaked it.
00:09:45:18 – 00:09:47:49
If the Klan had not gone to Vidor
00:09:47:49 – 00:09:51:48
would the Bat Lady and certain other people
still be obnoxiously rude, yes,
00:09:51:48 – 00:09:54:42
but that they’re still there,
they’re like stoking the hostility.
00:09:54:42 – 00:09:59:00
Yes, I think they
they really got people riled up
00:09:59:18 – 00:10:03:06
and getting on TV got them riled up and,
you know, bringing up it was violent.
00:10:03:06 – 00:10:04:20
Do You guys know the history of the Klan.
00:10:04:20 – 00:10:08:35
The Klan was originally this rather small thing
in Tennessee.
00:10:09:13 – 00:10:13:07
And then there was a play based on the
memory of the Klan called The Klansman,
00:10:13:25 – 00:10:16:42
that got turned into a silent movie
called “BIRTH OF A NATIONâ€
00:10:17:35 – 00:10:20:27
And they
you had to get in trouble for saying this,
00:10:20:27 – 00:10:24:57
but a nationwide craze, flew
by flying cosplayers.
00:10:25:10 – 00:10:28:09
They saw the movie BIRTH OF A NATION
and the Klan took off again.
00:10:28:31 – 00:10:29:36
Then it kind of faded away.
00:10:29:36 – 00:10:32:00
Then it came back
during the civil Rights movement,
00:10:32:57 – 00:10:33:33
and then it kind of
00:10:33:33 – 00:10:36:58
faded away
and it bumped up a little bit in the 90s.
00:10:36:58 – 00:10:39:47
I couldn’t tell you what the
with the response of it.
00:10:39:47 – 00:10:42:54
But did the Klans being there stir the pot?
00:10:43:00 – 00:10:46:50
get people excited,
get somebody who was quietly racist to be loudly racist?
00:10:46:50 – 00:10:48:22
Yes, absolutely.
00:10:48:22 – 00:10:49:01
Absolutely.
00:10:49:01 – 00:10:52:01
And the Klan is always,
00:10:53:02 – 00:10:54:55
you know, it’s all blacks.
00:10:54:55 – 00:10:57:30
Go back to your country,
go back to your country.
00:10:57:30 – 00:11:00:16
We’re all guilty of that.
Absolutely.
00:11:00:16 – 00:11:02:29
Especially white people.
Oh, I go back to your country?
00:11:02:29 – 00:11:04:00
Fine, go back to France, Go back to Russia
00:11:04:00 – 00:11:07:00
Native Americans,
you know, and it’s it’s like,
00:11:07:11 – 00:11:11:23
how hypocritical are we too
because this was not our.
00:11:11:41 – 00:11:14:35
Our land and boundary delineation.
00:11:14:35 – 00:11:16:07
You know, it. Was already here.
00:11:16:07 – 00:11:20:12
Yes.
You know so it was,it was kind of ridiculous.
00:11:20:12 – 00:11:22:10
I completely agree.
00:11:22:10 – 00:11:24:47
And there’s different versions
and there’s one
00:11:24:47 – 00:11:28:10
I had one with the history of the Klan.
I had another one with the history of Vidor.
00:11:28:10 – 00:11:30:28
And I cut it out because it was boring People thought, but,
00:11:31:53 – 00:11:34:40
they,
00:11:34:40 – 00:11:35:47
One of the Grand Dragons lived there. There was a metal pipe.
00:11:35:47 – 00:11:36:23
Lived there.
00:11:36:23 – 00:11:38:25
And I found his house , there was still
00:11:38:25 – 00:11:41:25
believe it or not,
the metal pipe that he would light the cross on
00:11:42:13 – 00:11:44:39
If you go to my YouTube channel,
there’s a lot of deleted footage.
00:11:44:39 – 00:11:47:30
If you’re interested, look up,
“The least on my brothers†YouTube channel.
00:11:47:30 – 00:11:49:47
Theres things that I cut out because I thought it was slower.
00:11:49:47 – 00:11:52:34
But yes, if I think it goes, of course
they’re neo-Nazis.
00:11:52:34 – 00:11:54:45
There was that one group?
00:11:54:45 – 00:11:56:04
They weren’t neo-Nazis.
00:11:56:04 – 00:11:57:23
In so much as he never said
00:11:57:23 – 00:12:01:30
anything about Hitler or Germany
or Germany, National Socialism,
00:12:01:53 – 00:12:06:25
but there’s no denying what he wanted for
America was a heck of a lot.
00:12:06:25 – 00:12:08:07
Like, what did Hitler wanted for Germany.
00:12:08:07 – 00:12:10:06
So from that point of view, He WAS a Neo-Nazi
00:12:11:16 – 00:12:13:00
00:12:13:00 – 00:12:16:00
So you were shooting this for five years?
Yes.
00:12:16:47 – 00:12:18:04
So what kept you going?
00:12:18:04 – 00:12:21:20
And was it that you were trying,
as you said, you were trying to prove
00:12:21:20 – 00:12:24:20
that the Klan did it, or like,
they were like,
00:12:25:41 – 00:12:26:53
I wanted to make a movie.
00:12:26:53 – 00:12:31:57
I want yeah, I can tell you,
I’m some great crusader on a horse
00:12:32:09 – 00:12:33:59
I wanted to make a movie
00:12:33:59 – 00:12:36:16
So I started,
but I didn’t want to spend five years.
00:12:36:16 – 00:12:37:40
I never meant to spend five years.
00:12:37:40 – 00:12:40:37
I thought it would maybe be six months,
but I couldn’t find people.
00:12:40:37 – 00:12:41:36
I didn’t have time to edit.
00:12:41:36 – 00:12:45:12
I didn’t have access to editing equipment
which which was a thing back then.
00:12:45:12 – 00:12:45:50
It’s not today.
00:12:45:50 – 00:12:47:27
You can do it all on your phone,
00:12:47:27 – 00:12:52:02
but back then I to get access to an AVID,
get access to BetaCam Cameras
00:12:52:02 – 00:12:53:21
That was not an easy thing to do.
00:12:57:13 – 00:13:00:42
Is that what kept you going
was that you were trying to prove
00:13:00:42 – 00:13:02:35
that the Klan was responsible
00:13:02:35 – 00:13:03:38
Yes. Yeah.
00:13:03:38 – 00:13:06:52
So one, I wanted to crack open the case
and show what really happened.
00:13:06:52 – 00:13:07:21
You know, I was right.
00:13:07:21 – 00:13:10:40
I wanted to finish my movie,
I wanted to, so I did everything.
00:13:11:11 – 00:13:17:47
And what was interesting
was I was starting to lean towards thinking:
“You know what? The Cops were rightâ€
It really was just a drive by.
00:13:18:28 – 00:13:21:06
And I still thought that Vidor was a racist town.
00:13:21:06 – 00:13:24:06
I interviewed somebody
who was still living in the complex,
00:13:24:24 – 00:13:28:00
and I was about to pack my camera,
and that’s when I looked up.
00:13:28:02 – 00:13:31:39
And then. the shot, of the little girl’s having a tea party
00:13:32:19 – 00:13:36:18
that was going on
So I quick grab my camera and video-ed that.
00:13:37:26 – 00:13:40:01
And then I put the camera away
and somebody said,
“So what are you doing?â€
00:13:40:01 – 00:13:40:55
“Making a movie in Vidorâ€
00:13:40:55 – 00:13:43:55
That was just a black girl who said,
this is not a racist town.
00:13:44:58 – 00:13:48:56
So I pulled the camera back out,
Miked her up and just interviewed her.
00:13:49:31 – 00:13:52:31
And then like on the drive, home,
I thought: hmmmmmm
00:13:52:44 – 00:13:55:06
That was kind of a turning point.
00:13:55:06 – 00:13:56:44
That’s when I kind of realized that I was wrong.
00:13:56:44 – 00:13:59:44
It wasn’t the Klan and Vidor
00:14:01:04 – 00:14:03:43
And then I can’t I’m not going to say
it’s not a racist town
00:14:03:43 – 00:14:08:06
To this day You hear about black people
not wanting to stop for gas there.
00:14:08:06 – 00:14:10:35
But is that true? Or is that hype?
00:14:10:35 – 00:14:11:44
Yeah, I don’t know.
00:14:11:44 – 00:14:14:11
I played with the idea of making a sequel.
00:14:14:11 – 00:14:17:49
Maybe for a hidden camera on a black guy
Have him go buy gas and see what happens.
00:14:18:10 – 00:14:19:08
I thought about that,
00:14:19:08 – 00:14:21:29
In other words, the exact same thing
A CURRENT AFFAIR did?
00:14:21:29 – 00:14:25:35
OOH! Gut Punch! Well done sir!
00:14:25:35 – 00:14:28:04
Now know you say that. Yes I would. Well.
00:14:28:04 – 00:14:31:04
Oh all right,
I’m doing another question like
00:14:31:40 – 00:14:34:23
okay, I was just going to
just make your own comment.
00:14:34:23 – 00:14:39:06
I think what what makes us feel resonant
all these years later is that,
00:14:40:23 – 00:14:43:16
you know, we live in an era of
are conspiracy theories.
00:14:43:16 – 00:14:46:35
I mean, you know, with social media
and all that, and it shows how
00:14:47:08 – 00:14:51:03
people were even back
then, 30, 40 years ago,
00:14:51:18 – 00:14:54:18
we’re still doing things for,
00:14:56:05 – 00:14:59:05
you know, coming in
from outside to kind of,
00:14:59:23 – 00:15:02:23
you know, start this,
00:15:02:47 – 00:15:05:23
make it look like
things are going on in the town.
00:15:05:23 – 00:15:07:50
The media was feeding on it and all that.
00:15:07:50 – 00:15:10:57
And, doing what,
I guess would we call fake news?
00:15:11:26 – 00:15:14:55
And, you know,
this was all happening back then,
00:15:15:15 – 00:15:24:40
and that leads us to the era here now
where people are very skeptical about about the media
and maybe rightfully so,
00:15:25:24 – 00:15:33:50
Apparently they missed lot of the stuff
that was going on in Vidor was really primarily outside forces.
00:15:33:50 – 00:15:40:45
And, you know, and then the whole thing
about it’s about the death of Simpson is, you know,
the conspiracy theories
00:15:40:45 – 00:15:46:43
It took a long time to unravel that it really was
just, you know, street crime. Right?
00:15:47:36 – 00:15:51:25
Everybody
even think that it was a coincidence
00:15:51:25 – 00:15:54:25
you never even got to sleep in his house
00:15:54:29 – 00:15:55:25
on the night that.
00:15:55:25 – 00:15:57:57
He was going to go to sleep in his house.
00:15:57:57 – 00:15:58:53
He gets killed.
00:15:58:53 – 00:16:02:47
Yes. What a freaking coincidence,
this amazing coincidence.
00:16:02:47 – 00:16:07:08
And that’s why I had first thought for
sure it had to be somebody from Vidor that did this.
00:16:07:36 – 00:16:09:11
Although in hindsight, I think about it.
00:16:09:11 – 00:16:12:10
I spent a lot of time talking to the Klansmen
and reading their literature.
00:16:12:13 – 00:16:17:19
I am NOT ori Klan at all.
I’m just saying from their point of view,
00:16:18:08 – 00:16:21:31
if Bill Simpson had been killed
the day he moved IN to Vidor
00:16:21:31 – 00:16:26:58
I’d say maybe it was the Klan
On the day he moved out? Why would they care?
00:16:26:58 – 00:16:31:00
I mean, I could almost see the Klan
paying for the U Haul to help him move.
00:16:31:00 – 00:16:38:49
I am joking but Yes, yes, it is an incredible irony.
00:16:39:43 – 00:16:42:42
And, you know,
I gave some a little bit of,
00:16:43:17 – 00:16:44:07
not lip service,
00:16:44:07 – 00:16:47:07
but I brought up the conspiracy theories,
like, people think that people think that
00:16:48:06 – 00:16:50:41
that when you get into how the landlady.
00:16:50:41 – 00:16:53:28
How did she get into HUD housing for me,
I looked into that.
00:16:53:28 – 00:16:55:38
It was completely genuine.
It was aboveboard.
00:16:55:38 – 00:16:58:18
She never rented throught HUD before.
You’re right, she didn’t
00:16:58:18 – 00:16:59:56
Nobody wanted to rent to Bill SImpson
00:16:59:56 – 00:17:01:48
Nobody wanted the publicity.
00:17:01:48 – 00:17:03:13
She saw him on TV.
00:17:04:15 – 00:17:05:44
She says,
00:17:05:44 – 00:17:08:49
I did this out of the kindness of my heart
to give the guy a place to live.
00:17:09:32 – 00:17:12:32
Ive talked to some people that,
00:17:12:57 – 00:17:14:11
I to go.
00:17:14:11 – 00:17:16:35
It was partly, that she wanted the money.
00:17:16:35 – 00:17:17:41
She wanted to rent that house.
00:17:17:41 – 00:17:23:16
She had a house to rent, she had an empty rental
property that she couldnt rent anybody because it was in a bad neighborhood.
00:17:23:52 – 00:17:28:04
So instead of that house laying empty shes now getting some H.U.D. money.
00:17:29:55 – 00:17:32:17
Plus the notoriety
00:17:32:17 – 00:17:35:17
Yes. Yes.
00:17:35:31 – 00:17:38:31
She she,
00:17:38:33 – 00:17:40:12
she wouldn’t appear on camera.
00:17:40:12 – 00:17:43:24
Partially because her Hollywood agents
told her not to.
00:17:45:10 – 00:17:48:24
At the time I made this, you know,
you saw the thing where she.
00:17:48:25 – 00:17:51:12
She was in the National Enquirer.
00:17:51:12 – 00:17:53:52
“Landlady taking back the streets.â€
00:17:53:52 – 00:17:55:51
She’s cleaning up her neighborhood.
00:17:55:51 – 00:17:57:06
She’s a crusader.
00:17:57:06 – 00:18:00:06
No, she wanted to increase the value
of a rental property.
00:18:00:11 – 00:18:03:27
And there was talk of making either
a movie or a TV show about her.
00:18:04:28 – 00:18:06:40
And Delta Burke was going to play her.
00:18:06:40 – 00:18:09:40
Oh, wow. And,
00:18:10:08 – 00:18:12:45
No, no, it was
it was going to be Delta Burke.
00:18:12:45 – 00:18:15:31
If it was a TV show
It was going to be Kathy Bates if it was a movie
00:18:16:33 – 00:18:19:54
And for, you know, for whatever reason,
that didn’t happen.
00:18:22:18 – 00:18:27:42
You guys didnt ask about this,
(I thought somebody would,)
I’ve toyed with the idea of making a sequel
00:18:27:42 – 00:18:30:42
“Vidor Todayâ€
I might do that one day.
00:18:31:00 – 00:18:33:56
There actually been
00:18:33:56 – 00:18:35:33
three sequels to my movie
00:18:35:33 – 00:18:39:11
That I didn’t make
I got paid for some of it.
00:18:39:58 – 00:18:43:03
The story, the, the billboard,
the fall. Is it.
00:18:43:05 – 00:18:46:12
“This is Vidor, where
you can get away with murdering a woman.â€
00:18:46:37 – 00:18:47:49
Did anybody hear that story
00:18:49:00 – 00:18:49:40
that had
00:18:49:40 – 00:18:53:41
absolutely nothing to do with racism,
with the Klan, the Kathy page?
00:18:54:37 – 00:18:56:22
This young woman in VIdor.
00:18:56:22 – 00:18:58:54
Was killed in mysterious circumstances.
00:18:58:54 – 00:19:01:27
The circumstantial evidence
00:19:01:27 – 00:19:05:03
points to the ex-husband
just incredible amount of circumstantial evidence.
00:19:05:03 – 00:19:06:37
But they can’t prove it.
00:19:06:37 – 00:19:07:43
The father was so angry.
00:19:07:43 – 00:19:09:47
Is is so obviously the ex-husband.
00:19:09:47 – 00:19:11:55
Why aren’t the Vidor cops
doing anything about this?
00:19:11:55 – 00:19:13:59
He put up those billboards.
to embarrass them.
00:19:13:59 – 00:19:14:15
He’s.
00:19:14:15 – 00:19:16:50
I think somebody from
the police took a bribe.
00:19:16:50 – 00:19:18:40
I don’t believe.
I just think they couldn’t prove it.
00:19:18:40 – 00:19:21:32
It’s one of these things that we know
is that guy.
00:19:21:32 – 00:19:23:31
We can’t prove it.
00:19:23:31 – 00:19:26:25
So there was a been a couple of things
like,
00:19:26:25 – 00:19:29:36
Unsolved Mysteries with Robert Stack
did the Cathy Page story.
00:19:30:05 – 00:19:33:14
The Cathy Page story
also kind of inspired
00:19:33:21 – 00:19:36:21
the Movie
“Three Billboards Outside Ebbing, Missouriâ€
00:19:36:48 – 00:19:38:21
I remember them going back five years ago
00:19:39:24 – 00:19:43:03
that the writer said
he was driving from Florida to California.
00:19:43:03 – 00:19:44:12
He saw billboards here.
00:19:44:12 – 00:19:47:01
You know, why is nothing
being done about this murder.
00:19:47:01 – 00:19:51:26
He saw a billboard. He got the idea.
and he wrote a completely fictitious story
insired by that billboard.
00:19:52:21 – 00:19:53:42
Another sequel
00:19:53:42 – 00:19:59:10
Somebody approached me,
Anthony Griffith black NAACP lawyer that represented the Klansman
00:19:59:10 – 00:20:00:30
He wouldn’t talk to me on camera.
00:20:00:30 – 00:20:01:55
He talked to me on the phone.
00:20:01:55 – 00:20:05:21
Well, someAfrican-American podcasters contacted him
00:20:05:21 – 00:20:08:33
and they did something I didn’t do,
but they talked him into doing it.
00:20:09:08 – 00:20:14:01
So there’s his story is on the internet,
and they’re using clips from my movie in that one.
00:20:14:01 – 00:20:17:26
And there was a TV series or like,
it’s on Netflix or on one of those,
00:20:17:37 – 00:20:20:26
Got Saved Texas by Richard Linklater
00:20:20:26 – 00:20:22:26
and one of the episodes
is A History of racism,
00:20:22:26 – 00:20:24:36
and they use a lot of
footage from, from the movie.
00:20:26:04 – 00:20:31:12
I also had a lot of problems, you guys arent RTF Majors
But I didnt have that much footage of The Klan,
00:20:32:06 – 00:20:33:55
There’s only,
00:20:33:55 – 00:20:37:05
I went just did internet
searches on pictures of the Klan
00:20:37:06 – 00:20:40:06
He knows a lot of that,
I Photoshopped it
00:20:40:32 – 00:20:42:19
I’m going to confess that I was a bad boy.
00:20:42:19 – 00:20:43:45
One of the shots in a burning cross.
00:20:43:45 – 00:20:46:02
I faked that
00:20:46:02 – 00:20:48:58
I got 2 wooden dowels
glued together and set it on fire,
00:20:48:58 – 00:20:50:42
because I just needed a shot
of a burning cross
00:20:50:42 – 00:20:52:48
I don’t do anything for you
about the Olympics.
00:20:52:48 – 00:20:55:18
How did you feel in that moment
setting it on fire?
00:20:55:18 – 00:20:56:29
I did in my backyard.
I didn’t feel good about it.
00:20:56:29 – 00:20:57:34
I do in my backyard.
I didn’t feel good about it.
00:20:57:34 – 00:20:59:29
And I also felt journalistically dubious.
00:20:59:29 – 00:21:01:51
But Im not lying
I mean, It did happen.
00:21:01:51 – 00:21:04:46
I just didnt have a shot of it
as, like, one of the early versions.
00:21:04:46 – 00:21:06:05
I said “FAKEâ€
00:21:06:05 – 00:21:09:43
Some of the words on the screen ok we get it
00:21:09:43 – 00:21:11:28
Cough. Doris and unrelated news.
00:21:11:28 – 00:21:14:09
At one time you shared stock footage
that you were clear to specify.
00:21:14:09 – 00:21:15:35
This is stock footage.
Yes.
00:21:16:38 – 00:21:17:19
And I don’t I don’t
00:21:17:19 – 00:21:20:44
know why I didnt do that on the cross,
but I think that and,
00:21:21:04 – 00:21:24:47
there was I, for a very short
time, was talking to Hollywood
00:21:25:09 – 00:21:26:42
and, like, turning this into a “MOVIE movie”
00:21:26:42 – 00:21:29:08
Oh, man. This is it.
This is my dream come true.
00:21:29:08 – 00:21:32:16
And then Waco happened, like,
oh, we’re going to follow that story.
We’ll get back tto you
00:21:32:16 – 00:21:33:31
Maybe we’ll do something with this.
00:21:33:31 – 00:21:39:07
And, any aspiring screenwriter s in the room,
00:21:39:07 – 00:21:41:02
Every made for TV movie, every one.
00:21:41:02 – 00:21:50:21
Not every movie,
every major TV movie is the story of a woman trying to save her family
through the strength of her heart.
00:21:50:21 – 00:21:53:06
And I like that may be a recurring theme,
but I say no.
00:21:53:06 – 00:21:55:45
It’s ever since they told me
that I can’t look at a made for TV movie without going
00:21:55:45 – 00:21:57:33
oh my God, that is it.
00:21:57:33 – 00:22:00:24
So they either wanted to do the story
of the two black women who moved out,
00:22:00:24 – 00:22:02:15
or the story of the mayor of Vidor
00:22:03:38 – 00:22:06:16
and I was talking to both of those people,
00:22:06:16 – 00:22:09:50
the 2 women who moved out and the mayor of
Vidor about doing the movie and,
00:22:10:42 – 00:22:14:15
the mayor didn’t want to do it
because of the bad publicity.
00:22:14:29 – 00:22:16:38
The two women wanted to do it,
but andthen the movie never happened.
00:22:16:38 – 00:22:19:15
So, what are you going to do
00:22:19:15 – 00:22:21:54
Anything else I want to talk about,
00:22:21:54 – 00:22:24:46
you know,
00:22:24:46 – 00:22:27:46
I can talk a little about this,
anyone else?
00:22:28:02 – 00:22:29:19
What do you think?
00:22:29:19 – 00:22:30:53
I think it was the head of the Klan.
00:22:30:53 – 00:22:33:26
He didn’t want to speak about the bus?
00:22:33:26 – 00:22:36:25
Because he was guilty as sin!
00:22:37:37 – 00:22:39:50
He did drive through that neighborhood.
00:22:39:50 – 00:22:42:49
Not HIM but HIS Klan group
00:22:42:49 – 00:22:45:34
His Klan group did go through that neighborhood.
00:22:45:34 – 00:22:46:42
Did drive through the complex.
00:22:46:42 – 00:22:50:01
There was somebody with a machine gun
that is a “threat of force.â€
00:22:50:01 – 00:22:53:56
That’s intimidation by third force
actually pointing a gun
00:22:53:56 – 00:22:57:08
at somebody and saying,
I’m going to shoot you is a worse crime,
00:22:57:51 – 00:23:01:00
but you driving it through, holding a gun,
that’s a crime too.
00:23:01:27 – 00:23:03:51
That’s intimidation by “Threat of force.â€
00:23:03:51 – 00:23:06:26
I dont know about HIM
00:23:06:26 – 00:23:09:25
but his group absolutely did that.
00:23:09:27 – 00:23:13:59
And that’s why he wouldnt talk about it because
it could come back in court later on
00:23:15:20 – 00:23:17:06
He was pleading the 5th
00:23:17:06 – 00:23:18:10
He did that.
00:23:18:10 – 00:23:21:40
And then, the voice over in,
what was the lady’s name?
00:23:21:40 – 00:23:24:27
Lynn Marie Garsee
00:23:24:27 – 00:23:26:08
Garsee Yes.
00:23:26:08 – 00:23:29:08
Did you does your voiceover
saying that she had
00:23:29:21 – 00:23:32:43
kind of orchestrated multiple interviews
for you?
Yes.
00:23:33:24 – 00:23:34:58
I went to the bathroom.
00:23:34:58 – 00:23:38:14
Did this version have the interview
with the woman whose leg got shot off?
00:23:39:12 – 00:23:39:35
It was.
00:23:39:35 – 00:23:42:24
She got me that interview
00:23:42:24 – 00:23:44:42
No TV network in the world, you get that?
00:23:44:42 – 00:23:46:48
She kept saying no .
Lynn Marie Garsee got me that
00:23:46:48 – 00:23:47:22
Copy that.
00:23:47:22 – 00:23:50:22
And she got me.
00:23:51:09 – 00:23:52:50
Oh, she got me around the neighborhood.
00:23:52:50 – 00:23:55:40
The shots at Bill Simpson’s house.
00:23:55:40 – 00:23:57:43
She she pointed out that at the house,
00:23:57:43 – 00:24:01:11
and she stood there and,
she got me…..
00:24:01:11 – 00:24:01:40
00:24:01:40 – 00:24:05:11
I think there was an
she gave me some other phone numbers.
00:24:07:11 – 00:24:10:11
As far as her getting caught
00:24:10:50 – 00:24:13:50
lying on TV.
00:24:15:04 – 00:24:17:28
Remember the part
where the the TV crew went to her house
00:24:17:28 – 00:24:20:28
to talk to her about this, and she said
people had warned her, not to talk
00:24:21:04 – 00:24:23:01
I can’t prove this.
00:24:23:01 – 00:24:24:39
I think she was just exaggerating.
00:24:24:39 – 00:24:28:06
She probably should like the attention
she was at that point in time.
00:24:28:06 – 00:24:30:00
She was about to be famous.
00:24:30:00 – 00:24:33:08
It was sort of making her story
into a TV show or a movie,
00:24:33:23 – 00:24:36:53
and she said, people came to me
and threatened me not to talk
00:24:37:26 – 00:24:39:21
Who came to you? What are you talking about?
When did this happen?
00:24:39:21 – 00:24:41:59
I think she was
making herself dramatic.
00:24:41:59 – 00:24:43:31
I think from that.
00:24:43:31 – 00:24:45:29
But I think that’s what happened.
00:24:45:29 – 00:24:47:59
Okay, so you don’t think that
she said that you believe.
00:24:49:23 – 00:24:51:22
No, I do not, I do not.
00:24:51:22 – 00:24:55:30
They could easily set him up in Vidor
00:24:55:30 – 00:24:59:35
Like she got him the house
so that the Klan know where to go
in order to get him?
00:24:59:35 – 00:25:03:03
Anyway, It woldnt that hard to figure out
where he went,
00:25:03:03 – 00:25:06:03
But no, I do not think she had anything
to do with that.
00:25:06:19 – 00:25:09:31
She set herself up as a saint.
“I got Bill Simpson a place to live.â€
00:25:09:50 – 00:25:13:13
One of the one of the attorneys
for East Texas Legal Services
00:25:13:13 – 00:25:15:53
said they talked to her
right after the shooting,
00:25:15:53 – 00:25:18:28
and they said, did you hear about
what happened to Bill Simpson?
00:25:18:28 – 00:25:20:57
She said, yeah, isn’t that terrible?
00:25:20:57 – 00:25:23:45
How am I going to get my next month’s
rent?
00:25:23:45 – 00:25:28:03
Nobody would tell me that story on camera
00:25:29:08 – 00:25:31:41
Anybody else?
00:25:31:41 – 00:25:31:57
All right.
00:25:31:57 – 00:25:34:57
Matt I hate to cut you off
00:25:35:31 – 00:25:35:54
on time.
00:25:35:54 – 00:25:40:55
To see the deleted scenes, look up YouTube
“The Least of my brothers.â€
00:25:40:55 – 00:25:44:28
And thank you for sharing such a
challenging but important film
www.mattkprovideo.com/2025/03/24/on-the-trail-of-delusion-episodes-2/
On the Trail of Delusion episodes
I am the video editor and motion graphics creator for this YouTube Series written and produced by author Fred Litwin.
I use Adobe Photoshop, After Effects,and some “Animate” (Flash) to create 2D animations. I finish all the editing in Adobe Premiere.
The opening theme music is:
Music by: Power Music Factory , Suspense Background Music , No Copyright
Channel URL : www.youtube.com/@PowerMusicFactory
Episode 1, Robert Renolds on the so-called “secret” JFK assassination files.
This was a 1280 by 720 ZOOM call scaled up to 4K in Adobe Premiere Pro. Uploaded Mar 22, 2024.
Episode 2, Robert Wagner discusses his books “JFK Assassinated” and “The Assassination of JFK, Perspectives half a century Later.”
Uploaded April 12, 2024 in 1920 by 1080.
Wagner is unique in that while he is on the Lone Gunman side, he disagrees with the single bullet theory.
Episode 3, Gerald “Case Closed” Posner
Uploaded in 1920 by 1080 on May 10, 2024.
Episode 4, Dr Martin J Kelly, Jr. Uploaded Jun 9, 2024.
Episode 5, Steve Roe on the General Walker Shooting. Uploaded Jul 2, 2024.
Roe wrote a chapter on Gayle Nix Jacksons “Pieces of the Puzzle” and is writing a book General Edwin Walker.
This is (so far) the best episode from the point of view of production values and camera work. The subject lives near me. So instead of this episode just being a ZOOM call, I shot the conversation with my “real” cameras. I even brought along my drone ( even though there was no logical need for it, I just wanted to use my drone).
Also, I had a lot of documentary footage of Fred Litwin and Steve Roe visiting some JFK related sites in Dallas, and of Roes visit to General Walkers grave outside of Kerr, Texas. (Center Point Cemetery, Center Point, Kerr County, Texas, USA)
www.findagrave.com/memorial/22725451/edwin_anderson-walker
www.steveroeconsulting.wixsite.com/website
Episode 6, Gus Russo. Uploaded Jul 5, 2024.
Gus Russo discusses his books Live by the Sword: The Secret War Against Castro and the Death of JFK , Brothers in Arms: The Kennedys, the Castros, and the Politics of Murder, and his work on the PBS FRONTLINE episode about Lee Harvey Oswald.
Episode 7, Dave Perry.
Dallas author Dave Perry discusses how he used his experience as an insurance fraud investigator to re-examine and de-bunk many conspiracy stories related to the Kennedy assassination and the supposed “mysterious deaths.”
He wrote the book: “Tales of Deception and Imagination: Investigating Kennedy Assassination Stories.”
He also tells some great stories about being a JFK researcher in Dallas and his first hand encounters with many witnesses and experts on the case .
His website: www.dperry1943.com
Episode 8, Nick Nalli. Uploaded Aug 22, 2024.
Scientist Nick Nalli discusses the science and physics of the Kennedy Assassination. He analyzes the science behind the single bullet theory, the “back and to the left” head snap, and the physics of other issues.
Episode 9,Dr Alecia Long. Uploaded Sep 8, 2024.
Professor Alecia Long, a teacher of History at Lousiana State University, discusses her book “Cruising for Conspirators: How a New Orleans DA Prosecuted the Kennedy Assassination as a Sex Crime“
This combines a ZOOM Call and some documentary footage I shot of Fred Litwin in New Orleans.
Episode 10, Don Carpenter. Uploaded Jan 23, 2025.
Don Carpenter discusses his book “Man of a Million Fragments: The True Story of Clay Shaw” Clay Shaw was falsely accused by New Orleans District Attorney Jim Garrison of conspiracy to assassinate President John F. Kennedy.
I took the pre-existing book cover and cut it into layers in Adobe Photoshop and animated them in Adobe After Effects.
Episode 11, Bill Brown on J D Tippit.
Lifelong JFK researcher Bill Brown discusses the murder of Dallas Police Officer J. D. Tippit by Lee Harvey Oswald as he (Oswald) tried to evade capture for the assassination of President John F. Kennedy on November 22, 2025. Bill Brown has devoured every major book and document of the Tippit case, has visited Tenth and Patton and the other major Kennedy assassination sites many times and has an encyclopedic knowledge of the case.
You can discuss the Tippet case with Bill Brown at the FaceBook group:
” Tenth & Patton – The Murder Of Dallas Police Officer J.D. Tippit“
This special episode of “On the Trail of Delusion” includes never before seen aerial drone and ground footage of the Tippit death scene in Oak Cliff (Dallas) and newly created 2D animations illustrating the placement of the people involved.
I shot this footage and created the animations to be used in my upcoming documentary ” The Grassy No” and I thought I’d use it here.
Episode 12, Eric Dezenhall, Wiseguys and the White House
Fred Litwin interviews Eric Dezenhall, author of “Wiseguys and the White House.”
The book is about the Mafia/organized crime connections some Presidents had. He also discusses his experience as a public relations consultant to big corporations led him to believe that the James Bond style “fixers” and hitmen we see in many movies don’t exist.
Episode 13, Dr Nick Nalli on the Acoustics Evidence and the Zapruder Film
Dr Nick Nalli returns to discuss the acoustics evidence as well as the Zapruder Film.
Episode 14, Scott Maudsley on Oswald’s Antisocial Personality Disorder. Uploaded Feb 27, 2025.
Fred Litwin and Scott Maudsley discuss Presidential assassin Lee Harvey Oswald’s (alleged) Antisocial Personality Disorder, Narcissism and other possible psychological disorders. They also discuss the books ” Inside The Criminal Mind,” by Stanton Samenow, “Marina and Lee” by Priscilla Johnson McMillan, “Oswalds Game” by by Jean Davison, “Reclaiming History” by Vincent Bugliosi, “Case Closed” by Gerald Posner, “Mrs. Paine’s Garage” by Thomas Mallon, and several others.
Scott Maudsley’s own video on the subject:
I had nothing to do with the creation of that video.)
Episode 15, Robert Reynolds on Trump’s release of JFK files.
The first episode of this series discussed what might be in the JFK files IF they ever get released. Upon his return he discusses what IS in them after President Trump released them.
Episode 15. TBA
mattkprovideo 