www.mattkprovideo.com/2024/07/01/delusion-ep-5/

Steve Roe on “On The Trail of Delusion” Episode 5.

This is episode 5 of the podcast/Youtube show produced by author and JFK expert Fred Litwin, of which I am the editor and creator of all the motion graphics, titles and animations.

“On the Trail of Delusion”

This episode is a talk with Steve Roe, who authored one of the chapters of the book “Pieces of The Puzzle,”

which focused on the life of controversial former Army Major General Edwin Walker-

who tried to indoctrinate his troops along John Birch-er lines and engaged right wing politics after he resigned.

He was alleged the target of an assassination attempt by Lee Harvey Oswald.

I created the graphics with Adobe Animate, Adobe Photoshop and After Effects.

The producer’s website is:

http://www.onthetrailiofdelusion.com

Welcome to another edition of On the Trail of Delusion. I’m Fred Litwin. And today we’re going to do another episode to separate fact from fiction and try to actually give you something of substance about the JFK assassination rather than the usual fantasy stuff you see on YouTube. I’m very excited today. My guest is my good friend, Steve Rowe.

Steve Rowe was born in Michigan, but he actually grew up in Texas and he worked in the oil and gas industry for 35 years, including many, many years in South America, ten years in South America. There’s a lot of stories, I’m sure, with that. He’s married. He lives in San Antonio. In terms of the JFK assassination, he has he’s authored a chapter in Gail Nix, Jackson’s book Pieces of the Puzzle.

And Steve also has a terrific blog. And you could find the address where you can go to his blog in the notes, but a terrific blog on the assassination, on General Walker and a whole variety of other topics. So, Steve Rowe, welcome to On the Trail of Delusion.

Hi, Fred. It’s so good to see you. Like sex for the intro there. Yes. So. So tell me, I mean, basically, how did you get interested in the JFK assassination? Well, when it first happened. Right. Yes, Cliff, I was eight years old. I grew up in Dallas and I was in elementary school at that time.

Then.

So I pulled said I was there at recess. You know, I’ll try to bowl as quickly as I can. So, you know, we get called into the film room and I saw this ball. And so, you know, eight year old kid, we’re pretty impressionable. We don’t want to think, gosh, what’s going on in the world? The president name a little cable.

My mother was at home working parking park. Also. She would alternate route. So I found her kind of crying. She’s watching TV, the coverage room and the wireless rigs going on here. So that’s what kind of sparked it. And then a little bit later, when I got a little older, started going to the library and reading some

I started out in the conspiracy books mainly, you know, everybody.

I gave it up in the seventies, you know, just lost interest in that and my career going. And anyway, I picked it back up again and late nineties to early 2000 still believed in the conspiracy but right the changed my life.

So what led you to change your mind.

I just put the books away. Right. Went and went in to start reading the documentation. You know, Mary Farrah Fawcett. And this got through the documents, reading it. And but there’s always something that bothered me about that whole thing, even when I was a kid, you know?

Well, if there was a conspiracy, wanted to leave the building, you know. So anyway, I just went through the documents. We start reading up and come to find out a lot of the stories books were there will be is the. So you got to go primary documents. That’s why I did it.

n
I totally agree. I mean, primary documents completely changes your your life.

I remember one time I was living in Singapore and I bought Richard Trask’s book Pictures of the Pain, and I was still sort of on the fence. And I got this book and I started reading and said, Wow, this is real history.

This book doesn’t read like the conspiracy books. You know, it was it was such a pleasure to read something real.

Where did your interest come in? Start for for General Walker and that part of the case.

Back in 2000, 15 or so.

I was contracted by the only Jackson

where I wrote that chapter in a book. We were friends, you know, from Dallas, in Oakland, Dallas. We

so I got kind of involved with that as a group.

three, was going to talk about Joe Walker a year or two, too. So but, you know, it’s a really untold part of that. That’s fascinating.

and all in. I got really, really stick it an anchor still in the is a fascinating guy.

So that’s how I got it And I said, you know I need to get in here and

research it and

get some truth out there a little bit, especially about the shooting,

Well, I got to say, I mean, you you know, I’ve been very fortunate to have a tour of where General Walker used to live in Dallas. You given an amazing tour of the area, the laneway, the house, all the buildings around it. I mean, I strongly if you if you ever have a chance. Hi, hire Steve Rowe to give you a tour of the Walker shooting.

It’s absolutely amazing.
And believe it or not, this highly decorated Army general, Korean War vet, World War two commando, all that was a mama’s boy. He was a mama’s boy. Right. In fact, he’s got a big picture of his mother. And you can see a little better.

the threat from within

what he felt. There were a

threat of communists inside our government, inside of our

clergy, all over, you know, so these really, really paranoid about it. And we’ll go into why.

I had a conversation with a guy named Bob Rowan. He runs the New York military

symposium up there

he’s got a little fi about

General Walker.

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Unknown
and he gets people to come in there. They remember General Walker and some of them do, you know, they were there.

00:08:37:12 – 00:08:37:19

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Unknown
true. If there was a real life force, if it would be

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Unknown
Edwin Walker

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Unknown
I mean when I got that guy’s name through, so much history

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Unknown
from World War Two to

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Unknown
Korea to

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Unknown
civil rights

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Unknown
Germany on the front of the line there, to the Kennedy assassination, to the old history. It’s just incredible to

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Unknown
that so much more interesting than my opinion, the JFK assassination.

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Unknown
But

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Unknown
A little history about Walker first.

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Unknown
For instance, a point down here.

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Unknown
He grew up on a ranch up there.

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Unknown
The ranch has been around since the 1850s,

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Unknown
finally he went into the Frontier Institute in Kerrville, which is

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Unknown
that was a military school set up in 1923 by former Texas Ranger

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Unknown
Yep.

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Unknown
And Charles Ryder,

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Unknown
There was an all male military school.

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Unknown
Walker is right there.

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Unknown
that’s. Walker The second time left.

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Unknown
Here’s a picture of the Walker family.

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Unknown
There’s only two boys.

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Unknown
father, George Walker, and his wife, Charlotte, which is the mama’s boy,

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Unknown
gentle walk was named after his grandfather.

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Unknown
And this is the name Edwin Anderson Walker. Same name.

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Unknown
They went to the New Mexico Military Institute. That’s a private school out there in New Mexico.

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Unknown
Well, New Mexico

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Unknown
and then he got an appointment to a U.S. military academy or West Point, 1927 by a Texas senator there who, oddly enough, championed the 18 prohibition movement

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Unknown
over.

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Unknown
I got that from

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Unknown
good author names, Peter Adams.

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Unknown
he book the insurrectionists.

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Unknown
It’s a book about

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Unknown
General Walker

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Unknown
mainly in his time

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Unknown
in the fifties and sixties, very well written book, well, sort of solid sources.

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Unknown
I recommend that book for all people instead. Walker

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Unknown
I graduated in West Point and 31 is

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Unknown
especially he was field artillery. So the commission now is a second meeting.

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Unknown
here to all your book of them in 1931 at West Point.

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Unknown
that’s a real interesting description from Philip the dead.

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Unknown
says.

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Unknown
He says Walker

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Unknown
was

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Unknown
certainly an assertive,

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Unknown
kind of aloof character back then. I guess I’m maybe a little

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Unknown
shy. I don’t know

00:11:04:12 – 00:11:04:17

00:11:04:17 – 00:11:04:18

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Unknown
that he wasn’t an outgoing and boisterous fellow, well understood. And he graduated, you know, down in the bottom of his class, third class.

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Unknown
Yeah. This is just the stuff of the Walker papers up in Austin

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Unknown
Briscoe Library.

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Unknown
This is one

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Unknown
description of his military service. I’m not going to bore you. They were like, in there.

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Unknown
highly decorated

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Unknown
Silver Star for bravery, the Bronze Star cluster, and then all through the campaign. Those

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Unknown
unbelievable.

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Unknown
You have a medal by the king of Norway.

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Unknown
after the war, not the Nazi.

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Unknown
Let them. Norway and the king came back to Norway and gave him a medal.

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Unknown
now. One of the first

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Unknown
four experiences Walker had was with the

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Unknown
unit called the Special Service Force or Special Servers.

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Unknown
This was a joint Canadian and American commando paratrooper force.

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Unknown
this specialized force, the forerunner of the Green Berets,

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Unknown
the Rangers,

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Unknown
Navy SEALs. I mean, they’re special

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Unknown
Walker was a colonel of the third regiment of there.

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Unknown
So they went to the Aleutian Islands up there off Alaska.

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Unknown
The Japanese had gone in there because of islands over.

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Unknown
by time they got there with the Japanese early on they left.

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Unknown
So after that they went into the Europe, they went into the most hardest fought battles. It was in Italy and

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Unknown
So they saw real heavy fighting.

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Unknown
They went into Rome, liberated Rome, and then they went over to France, southern France. And this picture right here is from a Canadian library archives up here. And they’re on a boat, a Canadian boat walker through on the right and the green

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Unknown
this is a real interesting picture. This is a turning point of a war years later. This is when he went to Korea

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Unknown
this is where it became bitter

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Unknown
about the war experience

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Unknown
and politicians and the war, as you probably know, the United Nations was created in 1947.

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Unknown
Korea was a

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Unknown
joint it was a United Nations effort.

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Unknown
it ended up a stalemate.

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Unknown
Truman was involved with him. And then when Eisenhower took over when he was president, and they met just through the through the line up there. But anyway, he became bitter with the way they were not fighting the war.

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Unknown
He was there.

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Unknown
He was at Heartbreak Ridge

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Unknown
Artillery Infantry.

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Unknown
He said they could have won the war. But MacArthur said that the they quote MacArthur out. Truman did in the way they fought the war was your soul.

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Unknown
This couldn’t shoot at certain times.

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Unknown
new artillery, older enemy sit there and walk back up.

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Unknown
And this was kind of the genesis of his

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Unknown
later right wing

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Unknown
after the Korean War.

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Unknown
He ended up in the

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Unknown
command of the Arkansas military district.

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Unknown
And here he is

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Unknown
in Little Rock, Arkansas.

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Unknown
This was called Operation Arkansas.

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Unknown
There was a ruling by Supreme, but familiar with

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Unknown
Brown versus

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Unknown
Board of Education, which gave the public schools had to be integrated. The Supreme Court ruling by Earl Warren.

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Unknown
Walker was in that district in

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Unknown
they were going to

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Unknown
integrate Little Rock Central High School

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Unknown
The governor of Arkansas, Orval Faubus, fought there.

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Unknown
you had his National Guard out there and

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Unknown
black people, the Little Rock Nine try to enroll in that high school. The National Guard turned around while Eisenhower got real mad about this.

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Unknown
He called them up there. They went they had a meeting at Camp David with the governor and they had a handshake deal.

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Unknown
Was going to work it out to proceed, you know, with the law of the land. Well, that didn’t happen. So what happened then

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Unknown
plans up in Walker had to draw up plans up to get civil rights. The National Guard is command and they sent troops over to integrate that high school. So they don’t play anything but private.

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Unknown
Privately, Walker was not

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Unknown
Thriller. It was against

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Unknown
theory. People didn’t think the government should be doing that. But he was in the Army and he was taken, ordered, you know, and he did efficiently. So he brought 101st Airborne over there. And they went into town and with an overwhelming force and fought around the school and next thing you know, the students were admitted and he stayed there for two years.

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Unknown
And then later, father, he stood up and closed school and

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Unknown
in 1959.

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Unknown
Walker gives command of the 24th Infantry in Germany.

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Unknown
They’re really a high, prestigious

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Unknown
thing.

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Unknown
This is where Walker got in problems

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Unknown
started

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Unknown
indoctrinating his troops

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Unknown
with what they called the pro blue program. And this was based off his his experience in Korea.

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Unknown
He felt that the people now are the soldiers over there now needed to know why they were out there on the line against the communists.

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Unknown
he cross the line when he started saying, Well, you need to check the whole front line. Your your your local politicians representatives look at their voting record and stuff like that, which is a direct

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Unknown
violation of the Hatch Act, where the military can’t do that.

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Unknown
The whole they can’t get political you to

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Unknown
right to do that.

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Unknown
tabloid paper there called the Overseas weekly

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Unknown
newspaper up there in Germany picked up on this stuff and he’s picking up the hey, this guy’s

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Unknown
doing some John Birch stuff up there. You know,

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Unknown
they ended up on Walker’s command. They bombed back the state. And it’s sort of another big deal in the Senate and what they call the muzzling hearings

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Unknown
a while.

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Unknown
It was back in 1961 in the States. He went on leave and we thought about it. And that’s when he thought he would resign. When he did hear. So on November 4th, 61,

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Unknown
he was probably down there that whole year or down. He he turned in his resignation at Fort Sam Houston,

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Unknown
He resigned and I gave him an honorable

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Unknown
discharge, I guess

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Unknown
Now people ask, why did he resign? He could retire.

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Unknown
30 years, a little over 30 years,

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Unknown
if he resign, that mean he would going out on inactive status.

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Unknown
if he was on inactive status and another war broke, now he could be called back, go back into the military. He didn’t want that. And the reason he didn’t want that, that was the smell

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Unknown
Vietnam coming right up.

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Unknown
And he wanted nothing to do with Vietnam. You’d already been through a bad experience and he thought, this is

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Unknown
going to be a second career where politicians run the war, you know, no fire zone, no shooting time and come to think of it, he was right. Well, that’s why he resigned.

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Unknown
And when he resigned, a forfeited pension,

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Unknown
Back in 62. Walker was out in California and he was visiting some of these old special service veterans. And they were kind of like a little reunion out there. And a newspaper got wind of

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Unknown
and they were asking him how why he was associated with the John Birch Society there gives his reasons, just like an outline.

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Unknown
You know, Korean War

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Unknown
why they weren’t allowed to win the war.

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Unknown
They thought the John Birch Society was a common interest.

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Unknown
They know they thought that

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Unknown
the communists were getting into the

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Unknown
military in the State Department, you know, all kinds of ways to bring them into society. And that’s why he called the threat from within.

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Unknown
And he felt that the people he would like to associate with, whether or not he was a member or not, they don’t they don’t carry cards really,

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Unknown
What do you do then? In 1961, after resigned, he moved to Dallas

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Unknown

61. Dallas was

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Unknown
let’s just say there was a lot of right wingers there, some a little strange, some of them just very conservative, all shades of whatever.

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Unknown
he felt that it was a good base of conservatives there or money there, people with money or real conservative. And that’s why he chose to live there. And so this is where he settled eventually. 04011 billboard that Fred, we went to that house, right? Yeah. Well, I noticed the flags are upside down. Yes, the flags were upside down.

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Unknown
He would fly those was that’s a symbol of the country in distress.

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Unknown
Yeah. Little interesting tidbit about those flags is after President Kennedy was assassinated, you turn them on right side up. So, wow, that just shows you his mindset.

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Unknown
You know,

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Steve Roe:
Somebody had the bright idea that he should run for Governor of Texas.
So he accepted it, you know,
But I don’t know whether, you know, in the back of his mind, you know,
everybody knew that he didn’t have a snowball’s chance in hell of winning.

00:21:40:13 – 00:21:59:14
Steve Roe
But, you know, but he’s Very popular, no doubt.
So to do that, he had to run in a Democratic primary. There was nine candidates running for the Democrat primary for governor, and he ended up dead last, of course.
But he did carry his own Kerr County and out there And I think Eckhart county out there in in western Texas

00:21:59:14 – 00:22:05:15
FRED LITWIN
Why did he not run as a Republican?

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Steve Roe:
His family was traditionally Democrat. His mother was heavily involved in the Democatic party way back in the twenties, thirties and forties.
But of course, we know who won. John Connelly.

00:22:23:20 – 00:22:54:03
Steve Roe:
This is an ad here put in by Joe Brennan, one of the Birchers in Dallas.
Then you can see the tenure of that.
You know, “the Commies are coming!”
The red scare, the United Nations, these are all talking points of the Birchers.
Theyre a bunch of wackos basically.

00:22:54:05 – 00:23:33:22
Steve Roe:
After he lost that election he milled around a bit.

I believe around for a while, he got involved with a real highly publicized Event.
Some people call it the last civil war in America.
There was going to be an integration of University of Mississippi in Oxford.

The mans name was. James Meredith, a black former Air Force veteran, a resident of Mississippi
Who wanted to move from a black college into the University of Mississippi.

00:23:33:23 – 00:24:06:02
Unknown
So the real interesting story on him,
He filled out all the paperwork and they accepted him. They wrote a letter back and he said,
“Well, thank you for the acceptance But to be honest with you, that,
I’m a black man or Negro,

And they turned around and didn’t accept Him.
So He started all this court stuff
So one or two years later hes trying to enroll.

00:24:06:04 – 00:24:38:01
Unknown
The governor of Mississippi, namely Ross Barnett, was very well, I guess you could call him a segregationist,
but he was also friends with Ted Walker.
So Walker was kind of monitoring this from Dallas.
And saw that things were heating up.
And so a little bit before September 30th, Walker actually did write a letter to President Kennedy.

00:24:38:03 – 00:25:27:17
Unknown
I don’t know if he sent it. It’s in his papers.

Scolding President Kennedy for not honoring theMonroe Doctrine, Basically just being soft on communism.

Walker got a wild idea that he was going to have this big showdown.

Let’s go over there and support Governor Ross Barnett’s efforts to keep James Meredith out of the university

So we had a little press conference in his home in Dallas
and little famous speech from,
they wanted 10,000 strong for every state state come over to Oxford,
support Governor Barnett and then bring your tents and skillets.

00:25:27:19 – 00:26:03:01
Steve Roe

So he kind of started building this up,
the press asked him
what are you going to do?

I mean, Walkers, violence, you know,
He kind of avoided that question.

He ended up going over there.
he went with one of his Bircher buddies Robert Surry.

00:26:03:03 – 00:26:37:23
Steve Roe

But from there, he ended up he went to Oxford, , September 30th,

The marshals came down.

That’s the Justice Department. Robert Kennedy and the Kennedies were monitoring this,

In the back channels, they were trying to work out a deal with Governor Barnett, who’s a Democrat,
said, hey, you need to let this guy in.

00:26:38:00 – 00:27:08:17
Unknown
You know, you’re breaking law. You know, this is the law of the land, you know, So this went back and forth like a pingpongl tournament.
Nicholas Katzenbach, in going down there, represented the Justice Department. So when were the marshals show up on the 30th.

And this was going to be the day that James Meredith was enrolled in the university where they had him sequestered back in Meredith.

00:27:08:17 – 00:27:47:11
Unknown
All of a sudden, all these people show up on campus from all over
a lot of out of towners, rednecks,Klan.

These are pretty violent processes.
And of course, the students on campus as well.
So the marshals surrounded the area and then around sevenor 730 at night on the 30th, the riot broke out.

00:27:47:13 – 00:28:17:10
Unknown
Walker was there. There’s many people that saw him there.

And he was standing by the Lyceum building up there and people were saying he was directing traffic up there, telling the rioters what to do.
He was acting like a general on the battlefield.

People knew Walker, they looked up to him.

00:28:17:12 – 00:28:49:01
Unknown
The Kennedys and the FBI knew he was there.
They were trying to find him anywhere.
This riot Breaks out. And then two people were killed.

Dozens of people were injured. Marshal, amoung them.

Kennedy ordered the army down from Tennessee.
They crossed over from the state line of Tennessee to support the marshals.

00:28:49:03 – 00:29:24:18
Unknown
These marshal were pretty brave individual because they were thowing Molotov cocktails and throwing rocks, rifle gunfire.

And at one point, the marshals tried to call Bobby Kennedy and said,
hey, they’re firing at us. Can we shoot back?

And Kennedy said, No,
Thats not what you want to hear.

00:29:24:20 – 00:29:52:07
Unknown
But in the long run, that was the right call
because had the marshals shot back and killed somebody

Then you got a bigger thing on your hands.

So the army, came down, supported them and took control.

And by four or five in the morning, everything was under control there.

00:29:52:09 – 00:30:27:14
Unknown

Walker had gone back to his motel room over in Oxford.
And then in the morning he started leave with Robert Surrey in a car, and he was stopped at a checkpoint.

And he was arrested.

They took him right back to Oxford, to the courthouse there, and they gave him two or three charges.

00:30:27:19 – 00:30:57:08
Unknown
One of them was insurrection.

In this picture, you can see him leaving the courthouse and
They were going to take him up to the airfield and fly him up to Springfield, federal prison

And it was the orders were given to from the Justice Department to have Walker go through a Psych(iatric) exam.

00:30:57:09 – 00:31:36:03
Unknown

they want to know if this guy is crazy.

He was playing reckless and doing crazy things and was he able to stand trial

He supposed to go through a 60 to 90 day examination

Well, that didn’t work out good
Walker’s lawyers got on that right away and then they started working out a deal.

00:31:36:05 – 00:32:04:08
Unknown
The original bail on Walker was 100,000.

They worked out a deal with the federal attorneys up there that Walker could go hometo Dallas would get his psych exam there,

there were three criteria in it in that exam.

00:32:04:08 – 00:32:42:11
Unknown

One of the criteria was
was he insane?

And the other one, was he able to understand what the trial was going on?

The American Civil Liberties Union, the ACLU of all people, came to the defense of Walker.

(MATTS NOTES, I looked uo online the criteria for being sane enough for trial and found:

adequately communicate with defense counsel
understand and process information
make decisions regarding the case, and
understand the elements of the charges, the gravity of the charges, and the possible penalties. )

00:32:42:12 – 00:33:05:19
Unknown
They wrote a letter to President Kennedy and told him, You can’t do this.

You cant lock a guy up for 60 days, to do a Psych exam.

Without due representation, He didn’t have a lawyer with him

Well, that was kind of one of the main sparking points to get him out of there.

00:33:05:19 – 00:33:44:05
Unknown

And of course, the next day they were reduced to 50,000, which the Walker family and friends did manage to scrounger name. Mike Walker flies back to Dallas and goes to sacking them and he passes and did a physical exam on well and like a weekend affair where, Dr. Robert Stubblefield gave the Psych exam.

00:33:44:07 – 00:34:28:11
Unknown
Same guy that did Jack Ruby and Stubblefield was with the Southwestern Medical Teaching Hospital over there and next door to Parker and Dr. Lloyd. Was that Parker? He was in charge of the psych ward and which is up on the eighth floor. Anyway, that’s where Walker have spent the week in there. That guy has a been in contact with the lady that did actually did give them to Newman, told them to do that before they were hit, that they woke up.

00:34:28:13 – 00:34:56:11
Unknown
This is a picture of Walker back in Springfield, you know, back in love. You know, we’ve seen that before. You know, the hero’s welcome. There’s another picture of Walker going back to her hearing in Oxford at the federal Circuit Judge Fullerton, which, of course, his mother for the and to the guy on the right is Robert Moore, one of his advisors and lawyers.

00:34:56:13 – 00:35:38:07
Unknown
He’s a controversial figure again. So anyway, they go in January 21st of 63, he goes up to Oxford and the grand jury drops the charges. The government didn’t want to pursue it. So they kind of back now the deal and all around that judge honored it and dismissed it. So now Walker is a free man. Here he is going back to Dallas.

00:35:38:07 – 00:36:15:16
Unknown
But the now his real soap opera,
He caught the eye of an evangelist out of Tulsa, Oklahoma, playing Billy James Hargis

. And really, Game Targets is an interesting character. He was a radio evangelists primarily, and a lot of radio stations were broadcasting them down throughout the south. He was kind of one of these fire brimstone preachers.

00:36:15:16 – 00:37:04:07
Unknown
J Edgar Hoover called him a hillbilly preacher.

What? He’s not wrong. Not a lot of people are not aware of is he’s also known as the balloon preacher. And when I say that he was back in the fifties, he actually went to West Germany during the occupation over there. And he convinced somebody over there, over here that he was going to get a bunch of Bibles together, stick them in these balloons, launches balloons all throughout West Germany on the line, and they would eventually show up in East Germany.

00:37:04:09 – 00:37:48:02
Unknown
So we walked carefully and dropped these Bibles behind the Iron Curtain Walker, who I guess felt that at the comments where a bunch of godless people, you know, they were they didn’t they didn’t want religion. So, you know, he was against the Communists.

So Walker and Argus or Kindred Spirits. Yeah. So they decide to go out on this midnight ride to the midnight ride, you know, from Paul Revere.

00:37:48:04 – 00:38:15:15
Unknown
And they were going to give a speaking tour throughout the United States. It was a bus tour starting in Miami, you know, two or three months with like what I thought, man, I am a worker. So the whole way through the United States, all the way up to the very end of Los Angeles. So they ended up there, very successful tours, big turnouts.

00:38:15:17 – 00:38:35:22
Unknown
We got a bunch of nominations out of it. And you got a lot of listeners who were. So Walker goes on to this tour, April 8th, 1963. Then what happened a couple of days later? this

00:38:35:22 – 00:38:59:00
Unknown
pauses for second or third. That’s water. Yeah. I’ll try to get through this as quickly as I can. Okay. Back on the air.

00:38:59:02 – 00:39:00:04
Unknown
Okay, So

00:39:00:07 – 00:39:15:07
Unknown
what happened on April ten? Here is a from this that original video, a simple Bob Welch screenshot of it. Somebody drives your walker, takes a shot at it

00:39:15:13 – 00:39:17:15
Unknown
and it gets to be it hits

00:39:17:15 – 00:39:20:01
Unknown
the bottom slash of that window frame.

00:39:20:01 – 00:39:42:21
Unknown
It goes through there and you see the detective there. It looks like McIlroy may be the to Gregory Peck gives that one out that night to look at that are Van Cleve and McIlroy in some other places.

00:39:42:23 – 00:40:28:10
Unknown
What he’s looking at it there’s another view, a close up view showing the show on the shot and right below the locking mechanism and Detective Sean, it’s there. Where does it go from there? It goes over Walker’s head and goes into a wall. It strikes a wall. Now, this wall was a wall, a floating, outdated oil wallpaper looking thing, you know, with flowers on it.

00:40:28:16 – 00:41:02:05
Unknown
When this the bullets strike above what they did or did go from there, it went through about eight or nine inches of lap and plaster wall and exit out the drawing room. And the bullet was found right there laying on top of things. We walk our literature. Their pamphlets were all bundled up and there’s some laying out there in the open, and that’s what it went through.

00:41:02:05 – 00:41:46:21
Unknown
And then the there’s another picture of Walker. Walker was slightly injured that night on his right arm. He was bleeding slightly. He took a little shrapnel from probably from the bullet face. And when it shredded out, maybe from where else, you know, striking his forearm, the man in front of him is a boxer with cigaret. We now see those that Mr. Sir is wearing a light colored shirt will kind of go back to the one of these theories you have there.

00:41:46:23 – 00:42:20:00
Unknown
But there’s no death. Lot of people thought was the staged fake shooting, the publicity. He didn’t need that He already had a I mean that’s that’s just what I let’s say he was injured, you know, I mean, how do you think that, you know, go anywhere near the diagram drawn by Bob sorry, at the Warren Commission, the woman gives you Orient there?

00:42:20:02 – 00:42:57:12
Unknown
Well, the north side on the very top would be the back of the alleyway behind the Walker home. So it would be the front entrance, Turtle Creek Boulevard West is on the left. So next monologue would be Jackson, Dr. Jackson’s home. And then on the other side would be the LDS Mormon Church that was there. Okay. Now, on the north side, you’ll see a emblem there called a right.

00:42:57:14 – 00:43:49:15
Unknown
That is the window where the bullet hit that we’re sorry through it. Now, down below that, you’ll see like a little rectangle there. That’s Walker’s desk. And we’ll talk with Walker, where he sat in that story of that shooting. And that will erode to the next wall. So this picture that was found in all Walker belongings, if you look from the bottom floor, the very left corner, that is the window where the shot this this picture was taken by Oswald.

00:43:49:19 – 00:44:11:20
Unknown
This is the back is the back of the house. Yes, sir. This is the back of the house. Right. Okay. Back of the house and the driveway in the back of the house. And picture was taken off that driveway to the left. There’s a lattice there. I don’t have a picture of that, but you can see it. Yeah.

00:44:11:22 – 00:44:44:04
Unknown
And then you have the 57 Chevrolet with a bunch that license plate. We just talking about that real quick because that’s all kind of conspiracy things that car belonged to. When Walker volunteered, it was Charles Clear was his name and Dallas police went out there after all this and see if they can see that car and they found and run the license tag on it.

00:44:44:06 – 00:45:26:23
Unknown
And it was Charles clear, no doubt about it. But law Oswald approached that license plate and it was found with Lonsdale, floor pants, conspiracy things about well, I wouldn’t much doubt when they found it and I know it’s in the record, both detectives out there, Stovall and the Astros, saw it had already been punched out and in Jesse Curry’s book, there’s a picture of that.

00:45:27:01 – 00:46:00:06
Unknown
It’s laying flat on a side of other possessions was well, so look there there it is. The license plate is there is not much that was laying flat for the first. Second thing is they later found a more high resolution photo of that and he blew up and I’ve seen it on my blog articles that much Americans thought it was.

00:46:00:06 – 00:46:33:15
Unknown
The way he found it out blew it up and yeah it’s it’s got a wide border didn’t have a license plate on the lane on top of something like this. Well that is not I mean not the they all the other things anybody else. Okay. All right. Now the shooting of a 14 year old kid that live. Fred, you probably remember some of this.

00:46:33:17 – 00:47:11:04
Unknown
We went out there a couple of years ago for 14 year old kid was staying at his grandfather’s house on Luton Street near Newton Circle, called, which is directly behind the Mormon parking lot, church parking lot. He heard the shot that night and he went over backwards fence, stood up a little box, leaning up there and looked over and was looking directly the LDS parking lot.

00:47:11:06 – 00:47:39:21
Unknown
There are two men that he saw and this gets in another conspiracy them. So the FBI went out there in June of 64. So they want to do their own investigation. They didn’t talk to Walker. They didn’t want to talk to Walker. Well, they did talk to Curt Coleman. And he did talk to, I think the Jackson and Mary Lou.

00:47:39:21 – 00:48:08:10
Unknown
They there was a first person live with her and did their own investigation. So what they did was they recreated were Coleman recreated where he was standing on that back fence. And this is a picture of it. They had to highlight it and read a little bit of the ones that are about the two men, which one? Their number one and number two is.

00:48:08:11 – 00:48:50:06
Unknown
And then number one was a man getting into a car right up there at the fence line real close to Coleman. Number two guy was going to a another vehicle park along the fence line that separates the locker room and the oldest parking lot. You can see let me just say their number one, where he where Kurt Coleman first saw that guy getting into the car park with a massive one.

00:48:50:06 – 00:49:39:19
Unknown
There seem to be the right side is along the fence line where another vehicle was parked. The two is where Kirk Irwin saw this guy walk in to that car on. That’s one. So just the really another view here of it to a level view of it. So a side view of it. B is where this 1958 Chevy two door vehicle was part therefore number two.

00:49:39:21 – 00:50:10:12
Unknown
God walked in. That vehicle in the sea is the alley that goes behind the work route that you see to the right of that C mark is a very, very important there’s like a little startling fixture there. So it’s like autumn or the wood there. You know, this is where the LDS church put their trash cans this block.

00:50:10:12 – 00:50:48:21
Unknown
The view from Kirk Coleman to the alleyway where the shooting occurred. So you could, whether you believe his Oswald or whoever, Kirk Coleman did not see him through the Kirk Coleman saw the other two, the two men, very important. I remember, Fred, we went out there actually over the old concrete pad that they would say, Right, okay, there’s another view, another view of it back in the

00:50:48:21 – 00:50:53:01
Unknown
church parking lot, looking straight down the alleyway.

00:50:53:02 – 00:51:26:15
Unknown
That’s the FBI white station. Wagner Number one was wherever that man first going into that or that station wagon for remember, too, is where he saw the other guy walking through the fence. And one C is the alley right behind or either for quality pictures without trying to pull them out a little bit. So what ties Oswald to this walker to

00:51:26:15 – 00:51:55:18
Unknown
the one of the first things that happened was this letter to Marina in Russian that was found in a Russian helpful crafts book that Ruth claimed gave to the Irving police officer to the marina who was sequestered over there, I believe the Six Flags and were some other stuff, too.

00:51:55:18 – 00:52:27:00
Unknown
But anyway, this letter or a two page letter was stuck inside that little helpful hole dance book. You know, it’s the Russian book. And so anyway, by the time I got that book up to give to the Secret Service that were, you know, had her under the guard there, they of course, checked everything out. Well, they found this letter.

00:52:27:02 – 00:53:02:14
Unknown
So now they’re asking questions. What is it, the Secret Service that a Russian speaker and a person they’re writing that came in from L.A., the Russian speaking community there, And he was working with Marina. So he saw this letter and he approached Marina about that. And then he went over, asked Ruth Bain if she asked if she wrote this letter.

00:53:02:16 – 00:53:42:20
Unknown
He denied it about it. She did. But the letter is written in all Russian grammar spelling, you remember. So Paul Gregory mentioned that and said it’s brand horrendous. And that was me. That comment was made by this Russian speaking agent named to prosecute Lee on her classic You read it. And so this is terrible. So him and Marina sat down together and try to interpret the translate one of the rules.

00:53:43:02 – 00:54:24:22
Unknown
Like you can see there’s too much detail in there that only Marina in our world would know. I’m mailbox key on. Let’s see where I was. All this might be on second page anyway. You know, I’ve got a check coming in. We pay, you know, go down and cashes check. And that’s true. You get fired. Jagger Charles Stovall, I mean, we have one more check for $33 and and then there’s other details in there.

00:54:24:22 – 00:55:09:11
Unknown
You know, Adriana You know, and we did. And then there was at the newlyweds, right? You paid water and gas. Yeah, And water. You absolutely did. And for all I know, no second page of it looks like I’m doing work, you know, of the Red Cross, you know, And then the most cryptic message is at the very end, if I’m alive and thick, imprisoned there, the city jail is down there, located across the bridge, across the viaduct here.

00:55:09:13 – 00:55:43:20
Unknown
Well, that’s the county jail, actually, the city jails or would be the nevertheless, what’s going on? You know, but nowhere in this letter, as you mentioned, Walker you know, and there’s a good reason why he did it. Why would he if he left this letter, went out that night, Why would if Marina would go find this letter ahead of time?

00:55:43:22 – 00:56:17:09
Unknown
Well, he’s gone and saw Walker’s name or General Walker or whatever. So you would what’s he going to do? You know, she probably would have gone panicked, probably would have maybe run out to run out to her house and contact somebody. Maybe maybe they’d contact the police. I mean, she was already getting beaten by him several times. And, you know, he’d left her.

00:56:17:11 – 00:56:42:21
Unknown
She knew he was out of there. So that’s why he probably did it. Probably do want to know where he was going. Didn’t want to tip her All Yeah, for sure was the common sense thing. I mean, I don’t want people say that anyway, but, you know, I did a handwriting analysis, but there are a few English words in there, like a Red Cross.

00:56:42:23 – 00:57:38:02
Unknown
They picked up on that. And, you know, the sign, what it’s all about, No doubt about it. Who else? Run it. Okay. What else it would track to Who? Lee Harvey cfc5 73 is the Walker bullet. That’s the one in the archives. And to the right is C read 99, the so-called magic one. It’s not legit, but they got this from David Long Pines site Interesting thing but you can see both of them are copper jacketed with a right twist and the length of that 573.

00:57:38:04 – 00:58:15:02
Unknown
So they were smashed was what, one in 518 of L.A. The the 3399 is somewhere around three inches. So, you know, it’s definitely damaged. So they look similar. Okay. Well, when police had that that slug in their possession, they sent through a city county lab over there. PARKER They have a got a lab. You know, this gun shots and stuff over there.

00:58:15:04 – 00:58:46:10
Unknown
They just kept a little lab. They’re trying to determine what well, they sent it over there and they can determine the caliber of the bullet. It was a smashed up condition. Well, when the FBI got ahold of it, they were they were charged with. What is it? Well, the FBI did have seen these or Western bullets they’ve gotten with you once.

00:58:46:10 – 00:59:20:14
Unknown
They had 3d3994. All they did, if you see that little ring on the bottom near the base of the bullet, that’s called a cannula, the that sits inside the cartridge, the bullet projectile sits inside the bullet cartridge, and it’s the same one. Where will they be compared to each other? And that’s how they terminate the 6.5 millimeter caliber bullet.

00:59:20:16 – 00:59:59:03
Unknown
Did you want to talk now about whether it’s steel jacketed? Yes. Well, that’s good. I’m coming right up to that. Okay. I’m sorry. Go ahead. That we can wait for for that afternoon. Right, Right, Right. Now, we’re talking about the okay, the slide here for if you remember the old Town record, the initial. Yeah. Yeah. School that was mentioned in the Oliver Stone’s latest Atlantic City movie.

00:59:59:05 – 01:00:24:11
Unknown
That’s the trade. You know, they were selling records and their shoes were not on it. And then, you know, we worked together to get the high definition photos with the hard drive, right? And all that. And we worked that together. We did a lot of work a little bit way away. We ended up flying it. And so I just did the same thing with five, seven, three.

01:00:24:13 – 01:00:59:20
Unknown
Well, let’s see, one initial I can find. So I did a browse through the collection and at the base of this bullet to the left or is Emma and as in like Nancy, this is where all the arresting are actually normally investigating patrolmen that came out to the locker room at night there were two of them and I will put in Billy the Norvell.

01:00:59:22 – 01:01:24:02
Unknown
Well, the FBI came around later 64 and they were charged with trying to find and verify all these initials and stuff like that or something. And they got around seven three when they were looking for. Officer Norvell Well, he no longer work for the police force. He’s on only place for some just for a few months. Well, they finally locate him.

01:01:24:02 – 01:01:49:10
Unknown
I think he was in Arlington somewhere or Irving, and they did locate him and the bullet were them. Took it out there to his place, and they were involved in this. And he said yes to the unit. And he said, Yeah, I put in an army, you know, And on it they said, okay. So he pointed out to me to put it on the base of the bullet, near the base of the bullet.

01:01:49:12 – 01:02:30:21
Unknown
Then there it is, there’s the air. So there’s this crazy, crazy theory out there that’s really embarrassing that about it All supposed to be still jacketed bullet because they mentioned steel jacketed bullet in the case report. The detectives actually normal found that bullet later and it’s got to be is couldn’t be you know the one in the National Archives I think you know and there were several people.

01:02:30:21 – 01:03:05:07
Unknown
So this is just that’s completely nuts. I don’t care if you call a plastic bullet or or silver bullet. There’s the M on that bullet in the National Archives. And that is Billie Jean Norvill in this exactly where he described it exactly like Elmer Todd describe is. Well, they were squished. So the still jacketed bullet is just another saying it’s an embarrassment.

01:03:05:09 – 01:03:25:05
Unknown
Right? Yeah. Well, sometimes and sometimes people make mistakes. I mean, the to the conspiracy people, you’re not allowed to make a mistake at all. So it’s like if it’s if somebody just tried to steal, I mean it’s and you could easily I think you can you can speak to this you can call a cop or jacketed bullet a steel jacketed.

01:03:25:05 – 01:04:02:02
Unknown
At first glance, I imagine. Yeah. Well, this was questioned by the Warren Commission member who was one of the guys that produced the question, Robert Frazier of the FBI. He said it’s worse this effect, what do they call bullets, still jacketed bullets, because I’ve seen the case report refrigerated. The people do call it, but it’s actually a copper alloy.

01:04:02:04 – 01:04:40:06
Unknown
So Frazier explained it, but unfortunately, don’t accept that. You know, he’s, of course, referring to conspiracy in the thousand, maybe conspiracy. Yeah. Way to the high levels of government. So they may not know that I can deny it. Let’s get to this escape route. Why people are interested in this, this and the FBI, when they went back in 64, went out and, you know, they had Oswald’s pictures and they took pictures themselves of comparison.

01:04:40:08 – 01:04:59:15
Unknown
And you see that in record. And there’s a longer in the Oswald pictures were a couple of pictures of railroad tracks. Well, that’s kind of funny. I didn’t know he was a train buff. Anyway, so they were out there trying to make sense of all this.

01:04:59:15 – 01:05:11:11
Unknown
But I drew this diagram. What they theorize could be an escape route by Oswald, and he looked up little left corner.

01:05:11:11 – 01:05:48:21
Unknown
I wish my corner would work, but under under the theorized is the walker home and crosses them and they are there’s an alley that goes directly across them which is no longer you know goes all the way to Irving Avenue. Now one of Oswald’s pictures, he had a looking down the alleyway, looking toward Allendale from the parking lot.

01:05:48:22 – 01:06:21:12
Unknown
In the background was a high rise building. What building was 21 Turtle Square. And that was being constructed during the time in March of 63 being under construction. So the FBI, what they do, they try to figure out what’s going on here, they were trying to pin a date when this might have been this picture might have been taken.

01:06:21:14 – 01:06:55:17
Unknown
It was taken in January, was taken last year. So, you know, pretty good about this. You know, they went to that building that owns that building and they said, well, it’s contact. They got to hold this guy. It was kind of a I forgot it was title was it’s been passable as night. It’s all in the record and he had logs on as he was going to walk in I’m sure which can hold inspector for if J from an FHA loan or whatever.

01:06:55:19 – 01:07:26:10
Unknown
And he was keeping logs of the construction, he was keeping slides, the construction pictures of it. And they looked at this Oswald photo and they could count the floors, but they know one thing. They noticed that there was no crane work going on, nobody working very fast, Moore told me. Well, they don’t work with you. so this would probably take him away.

01:07:26:10 – 01:07:58:20
Unknown
Camp and which we were then, I think the night March 9th or March ten, I think it was March 10th, because March 9th. But, you know, I tracked him down. Oswald was doing overtime at the Jaggers that day, which meant it’s better to think of anyway, So this picture was back there. So while we would take a picture like that, where would we shoot now?

01:07:58:20 – 01:08:30:14
Unknown
In the alleyway there, you know. So I just did a little recon themselves. They were looking to go straight down that alley. It ends up on Irving Avenue. And where did you go from there? Well, we could have gone down to Turtle Creek or wherever. So just kind of mill around there or around there. And then they noticed a 90 foot footpath going up there, not too close toward Blackburn Street, but not that far.

01:08:30:16 – 01:09:14:04
Unknown
We’re going up from the street. That turtle drive was the railroad tracks, which is the Missouri, Kansas, Texas railroad tracks. It’s no longer there. It’s now the Katy Track through right along that 90 foot footpath with the brush miles going up, there will be spot. We need a rifle right there. One of those railroad pictures up there. They noticed the railroad tie was going on them up on one side kind of water.

01:09:14:06 – 01:09:43:04
Unknown
So they went and rocked that track and they found it and then they noticed that that footpath wasn’t real close to the well. Maybe you just give a clue in. This is all a theory, Of course. Okay. Yeah. So anyway, they said, well, where do you go from there. From Marina. These, the city called the bus like since you know, we probably did.

01:09:43:06 – 01:10:29:10
Unknown
So they just tracked down a metro little railroad tracks down to the railroad trestle that crosses over to Blackburn Street there in the lower part of the picture. What, down Blackburn Street and on the corner of Cole Street and Blackburn is bus stop and it was there is still there and that was a bus stop. Well actually they start checking the bus lines do you know what would run that night I created the mousetrap engine bus.

01:10:29:12 – 01:10:56:17
Unknown
So they went through it and they found the bishop line. Which of number? Line number four would come right out of SMU, which would be on the right side of the picture there goes right down cold street to Blackburn and then takes a left from Blackburn, goes in the downtown, goes through downtown, crosses the viaduct over an oak cliff and goes down Bishop Street.

01:10:56:19 – 01:11:21:00
Unknown
And then from Bishop Street to Main Street. It probably wasn’t a bus stop there, but it got off right there near it and would be 1/10 of a mile walk through is really a four. So it was a doable idea. It was doable. That’s what we’re trying to prove. Might might Oswald’s have

01:11:21:00 – 01:11:27:11
Unknown
buried his rifle with his raincoat to protect it, to conceal it.

01:11:27:13 – 01:12:03:11
Unknown
One main thing, it’s a big Marine trench coat, right? Long, long waisted and a great long you know, it’s got to do, you know, this is this is this rifle is practically carbon, but it was 40 inches over one in 36, but it got a 48, you know, now making one year or a 36 year old, I could see liability, you know, I should back up and save a little bit.

01:12:03:13 – 01:12:35:18
Unknown
That time after March 10th. Two days later, he ordered a client rifle for the post office. Two days later we mailed it and he probably mailed off the seaport trader revolver as well. So close to that time, if not the same day. Right. So, you know, you just got to know what time they were going to come and a little bit more money.

01:12:35:19 – 01:13:07:20
Unknown
Why not buy a rifle with the seal Bailey on carbine on shorter. And so that’s what he did. And then probably wrapped it up in his raincoat and took it over there. We had it and he went out there before one time earlier and longer probably wasn’t there. And the station back where he had it, and I don’t know if he had who knows if he had an raincoat or where.

01:13:07:20 – 01:13:43:01
Unknown
The rifle in the brush. I don’t know. Right. Have nobody knows that. You know, this is all in dark. Makes you wonder why he wore black old backyard pictures of far away We were on well after that shooting all that you know everybody knows the whole story with New Orleans and he came back to Dallas and then finally had a job with the Texas Schoolbook Depository.

01:13:43:03 – 01:14:40:23
Unknown
And then they he was it got him. Exactly. Run. October 23 of 63. So there was a Walker rally at Dallas Memorial Auditorium. That’s Memorial Auditorium. I don’t know if it’s still there or not. The one with the big actually, the Beatles played there in 1963. They were there were when all these Walker people, friends that Adlai Stevenson was coming to town to give a speech on the invitation of Stanley Marcus, the Neiman Marcus store name, a real prominent businessman.

01:14:41:01 – 01:15:11:07
Unknown
It was Jewish. The but you know, it was I was it was a liberal, but it was not a liberal firm, he would say today. I mean, he was very practical man. I mean, very smart, extremely poor. And they weren’t he invited Adlai Stevenson to come down there from the United Nations to give a speech. Well, Walker, people got wind of the this was going to happen down there.

01:15:11:09 – 01:15:49:05
Unknown
And to my research and look, there probably Robert, sir, that really have involved with it in security not in the Dallas laboratory and for a rally day, the US rally day, the night before the Adlai Stevenson, they had to rent this thing out the night before the Stevenson trial and workers had anything worse than the United Nations. And so, I mean, they’re signed all over Dallas, you know, bumper sticker to get U.N. out of the U.S. marchers.

01:15:49:06 – 01:16:20:07
Unknown
Remember? So they they organized this night and you have today was a proclamation by Governor Connally. They would be like the USA and Texas, whatever, that William and the Walker people jumped on it and never have a U.S. They were. So why they did this and it was 8:00 at night and you can see the mission were free.

01:16:20:09 – 01:16:57:03
Unknown
I can’t remember how many thousands of people were there, but certainly under 5000, maybe 2000, maybe 3000 for a lot of these right wingers. Walker friends showed up and Walker gave a speech. And, you know, he just went over mental predatory stuff and got them all riled up, you know, And so when you think about it, your version of them get riled up about it.

01:16:57:05 – 01:17:48:08
Unknown
And it was Lee Harvey Oswald. He was there night since the walker that is or his writings this was the Arnold Johnson exhibit Oral Johnson was with the Communist Party then there for years SIPA USA and he was writing to well know but in this letter he mentions I’ve got to cut off here but anyway you can us ACLU meeting excuse me Southern Methodist University SMU they old speech they’re talking about and he got up and talked about Walker but ultra right in Dallas and Lee’s right October 23rd.

01:17:48:08 – 01:18:26:21
Unknown
I you know you read through anyway I tend to mean by Edward Walker in Dallas reading was preceded one day before the attack on Adlai Stevenson. We people know that so he goes on and bottom there is as you can see, the friction between left and right is very great here. Well yeah, that’s true. But I don’t know everybody in Dallas left the right mean the right people.

01:18:26:21 – 01:18:57:07
Unknown
Okay, right. We’re kind of a small minority, but aside from one very, very vocal. But anyway, author was there while he was there is talking and see you were there with Michael Paine. Did you go or that was not or there was an ACLU meeting with Michael Paine? Yes. Michael Paine With Oswald. To the ACLU. Yeah, to Kristin Crystal Lake happens and name was a friend of Michael Brown.

01:18:57:07 – 01:19:20:03
Unknown
These are females who got an a heated discussion with. But yeah, we stood up and talked about the war. I guess you could take his words, but he was writing about it. I don’t know why he was there. Or maybe word. I was like, You’re going to kill the human. You can bear himself. But we got out of there.

01:19:20:03 – 01:20:14:08
Unknown
But you know, so fascinating. Yeah. This is at the Adlai Stevenson speech the very next day. And it’s what, a lot a lot of shame on Dallas. Walker had riled up a lot of these people the night before. And yesterday he was going to go because it’s Adlai Stevenson was free to walk free and this picture here from Dallas Public Library is the guy in the middle standing up in the crowd is a guy be would be read sort of the national indignation convention 39.

01:20:14:12 – 01:20:44:11
Unknown
And I wanted to say that when it was all about protest about the in 61 about the they found out their air force base north of Dallas that the Air Force was training Yugoslavian pilots to fly their planes. So these people got all mad and well, this is a comment, but people, you know, so I thought you, this is it.

01:20:44:11 – 01:21:28:16
Unknown
You know, the commies are here and they’re taking over and our government is training them up and they want McGahee very anti-union, probably a merger. These guys drifted over that much but stood up and started making a ruckus, was interrupting Adlai Stevenson speech and seems as if on stage. And Stanley Marcus was onstage, sitting, sitting in a chair and this McGuinty kid just kept getting up and interrupt them, yelling at him, ask him questions, just disrupt what I mean, you he gets thrown out of the middle.

01:21:28:18 – 01:22:01:09
Unknown
Well, interesting story about this one. All these Walker people get in here, Stanley. Mark, this was, you know, rarity, concerned about the boisterous right wingers in Dallas. You know, they would yeah, it was really worried about Adlai Stevenson. So had a guy that was working for him that a security man was a friend of Jesse Curry’s security of Dallas police.

01:22:01:10 – 01:22:40:09
Unknown
And we had him go over there and talk to Curry and say, look, this is coming up. You know, we count on you guys. We have adequate security to Mr. Stevenson. Curry assured him, yes, we would. So we went back to Mark as a doorman to make sure everything’s okay. And well, anyway, come to find out when they start opening the doors to orient the police.

01:22:40:09 – 01:23:06:15
Unknown
There weren’t a big police presence, so they arrived later. So all these Walker supporters and right wingers, conservatives got in there and got their seats free. So they had a whole big contemporary these know, like Frank McGee just this was going up and down fine Confederate flags, air horns, you name it. So they were carrying all kinds of stuff.

01:23:06:17 – 01:23:37:17
Unknown
And I mean, just trying to embarrass students and interrupt them. So anyway, and meanwhile, it seems to get through speech, you know, and they start to leave. And this is when he gets hit over the head with a placard by a burger lady in court forever. She’s not back then it gets spit upon by the University of North Texas student Robert Hemphill.

01:23:37:19 – 01:24:06:04
Unknown
And anyway, Sam, Architects looking at him in the car and we’re starting to shake the car and everything. They got him out of here, a run over, people getting out of there. But, you know, I mean, it was a just a shameful event. And it’s as well as we’re talking about, and it’s so shameful that the mayor, Earl Campbell, gave a public apology.

01:24:06:06 – 01:25:09:19
Unknown
You know, in the newspapers. And that’s when you really turn on the right wing outlets and probably thought bad. Now what did I give that after Walker? I think the people their little little side story we’re getting toward the end here got who else thought General Walker was up to it? Well, Jack Ruby, of course. Why not? Yeah, that’s the first the first noted conspiracy theories and mostly people in those both in or well read know about Ruby Warren how he reacted that they on the 22nd you know Ruby found that watchman ad in the Dallas Morning News all upset about it one of the sisters now similar to her and you know, Ruby was

01:25:09:21 – 01:25:46:06
Unknown
very sensitive to his own faith. You know, and he knew that the Walker people, the Birchers and all and all these conservatives were were anti-Semitic. He knew that you couldn’t help. But I mean, they were they were people back in a year before. That was it a year or two months before that were putting swastikas on decals on the Jewish merchants downtown, some commissary nearby where Ruby had his blow.

01:25:46:08 – 01:26:23:18
Unknown
You know, he was very sensitive to anti-Semitism. And he he got into a lot of fights in the military. He would really it really bothered him and he noticed it wherever it was. Yes. Yes. You a very, very tough to love. Anyway, this is Robert Somerville writing up about Ruby on his the psych exam. And Ruby talks about taking that prelude and guys probably know very Prelude was an upper Let’s be diabolical back in the darkroom, you take those of you to stay awake.

01:26:23:18 – 01:26:54:08
Unknown
You know, we kept on our night out with his clubs and we go there when they close, collect the money well up. So we talked about Ray Lewis. What? I don’t know what this thing is, is if you combine liquor with CRB, I don’t care about about things. I don’t know what CRT stands for in, in your student research research out there.

01:26:54:08 – 01:27:37:23
Unknown
Know what he’s talking about. What was a drug or that pill or what not all we have taught him there you know he’s talking about the whites and the it’s it’s very detrimental to my people. We’re always a scapegoat or worse truth. I thought Jim Walker might be behind the shooting and he did it in the film that we’ve never a well, that’s kind of General Walker’s bizarre behavior.

01:27:38:01 – 01:28:08:12
Unknown
And that’s all I want to address a sensitive subject. I don’t want to really get down on this, but General Walker was a closet homosexual. They kept it secret all his life. But most of them then, you know, back then, especially here in the military, I mean, you could be booted out of the military, found out they kept it well-hidden, but there were whispers about it.

01:28:08:14 – 01:28:43:16
Unknown
He was arrested twice, was 76 and 77. I think it was. You know, I have those arrest records, but I was just slaves down some improper things with an undercover agent that you got arrested. And so that was in the seventies. And then and before that, in 72, if you recall, Governor George Wallace, which was Walker, was one of the big supporters.

01:28:43:18 – 01:29:26:01
Unknown
He led wars in fact, he attended Wallace’s speech here in Dallas four days before the assassination, when Arthur Bremer took that shot at Governor Wallace over there, paralyzed. I was critical of the law. Walker not really upset so many heads down to the park. I can’t remember the name. The partnership, the derivative on heart rate or whatever. And he goes down there and the it was like a midnight vigil.

01:29:26:03 – 01:30:08:14
Unknown
The heart for Governor Wallace And I’m sure there there’s a lot of people screaming for that. Well, anyway, the park has a curfew, I think curfew after midnight. Anyway, police went over there and tried to get him leave. Leave and he says, no, I’m not going anywhere. So I ended up arresting them, taking them downtown. And this picture right here is taken off film slide off where we William Jones archive.

01:30:08:16 – 01:30:42:06
Unknown
Excellent, really excellent work on these old brilliant films and really cleaning them up and let me this is this is Walker with a goatee look at all fancy now walking out of courtroom number five for this for this hearing for his violation. Walker insisted to be arrested. Go figure. Not at all. But he is increasingly getting more and more bizarre.

01:30:42:08 – 01:31:14:22
Unknown
I mean, to the point, you know, after assassination, these these right wingers all kind of kept a lower profile for, say, was very embarrassing. They were very entertaining and it would be a bad place to do that. So so we kind of went to, you know, a shooting story. When the shooting started, more people would come out. So they less and less people were interested in him, you know.

01:31:15:00 – 01:31:47:19
Unknown
So he started being kind of like a reclusive black individual. You know, if you’re you’d go out and you’ll see people let you know he wouldn’t one big proper guy that it was back in 60 what Walker do later he got his retirement back in 1982. He had a lawyer work on their and I got sent over to the Department of Defense.

01:31:47:21 – 01:32:22:04
Unknown
Then the palm prints decided not to subject to it. And I said, okay. After all, he had given pretty damn good service, you know. So did he get his pension back? You did, sir. It is difficult. 1982. You have this honorable discharge and retirement out of that. Well, he’s get a little financially strapped. They’re a little later. You know, you had a you had a big lawsuit that he won initially.

01:32:22:06 – 01:32:52:20
Unknown
And you’ll see Associated Press in the lower courts in Texas over the Ole Miss riots. What the grand jury, that they tried to sue him for libel and all that. And of course, we had many outlets, you know, reflect your own well on that, too. But he won that. And I think 108 Supreme Court of Texas, let it got knocked down.

01:32:52:21 – 01:33:25:06
Unknown
Enron, the US Supreme Court for all of us spring break. We fought it, Victor. Nearly one reason they did win because at that point these papers could not be sued for libel or political figures like somebody in office. If you’re talking about Senator so-and-so, you know, you know, went after he kicked his dog, whatever, You going to get sued for that?

01:33:25:08 – 01:34:17:13
Unknown
Well, Supreme Court extended that the public for years. So that’s a big ruling. And Walker didn’t give his $500,000. So that’s where it. Chief, you know what happened, General? He died in 1993. The this is the the governor of the state of Texas. And he died. The official cause of death was like all good. The the hard time pronouncing February that’s the heart ventricle goes into a like like a out of rhythm bill right.

01:34:17:18 – 01:34:54:10
Unknown
Some people call it a few of you know where you order for broken then the cause of that initially was pulmonary which was a direct result of is years and years. Smoke is just pretty heavy smoker he probably had emphysema or whatever, but he died at his home. We moved obituary years before he died. Another home there close to love Will.

01:34:54:12 – 01:35:28:01
Unknown
And that’s what happened this week. So he is buried down here in CenterPoint, Texas, and you’ll see a video about that. Perhaps we can go see that. That’s the family grave side me earlier and that’s where he’s laid to rest. And that pretty much concludes my long conversation. And thank you very much. Alive. The big question I want to ask you is what do you know?

01:35:28:03 – 01:36:00:15
Unknown
To me, it’s an open and shut case, but what what do you say to conspiracy people who seem to find a variety of minutia to claim that Oswald was not guilty of trying to kill Walker? The reason they do this, they do this, or they can essentially they take certain particular claims out of context where they like still jack jacketed bullet, but they don’t look at the walker, the letter of the marina.

01:36:00:16 – 01:36:29:21
Unknown
So you have to look at all the totality of evidence. Does it make sense? Does it follow that rational? You have to to look at everything. I mean I mean, that’s just the only sense. I mean, but, you know, these people are I don’t want to really get down on to horror here, but there’s people that are emotionally attached to Oswald that that will just defend him to no degree.

01:36:29:22 – 01:36:55:10
Unknown
But we got to look at all the evidence. And so we have to look at these pictures he took or they took these pictures. What earlier were his rifle right there close to the Walker shooting? What did he take? Backyard photos dressed up in black with two, four, or why? Why did it why did why did he why did he shoe Kennedy and take a shot at Walker when they’re there?

01:36:55:15 – 01:37:27:07
Unknown
Different people. yeah. That’s another thing. Yeah. No. Well if you understand these factors, you know, but you know Kennedy, you know, he never felt bad. But that’s not true. That is not true. He did. He did say some bad things, but he was insensitive. Kennedy’s Cuba policy. Yeah. Yeah. And you know that. You remember our trip down to New Orleans?

01:37:27:09 – 01:38:01:13
Unknown
we went down to the Lafayette Library to, yeah, close walking distance to this Magnet Street magazine street apartment. And in that book, in that library there was about William Manchester’s book, Portrait of a President before the Kennedy assassination, talking about President Carter. Well, guess somebody stamps their place of Cuba in the flyleaf of that book, you know, New Orleans, that’s that’s that’s in the record.

01:38:01:15 – 01:38:24:02
Unknown
You know, you have to find that, you know, he was he was an unhinged individual and he said it to say he’s he’s a pretty smart guy. I mean, you tell him and you read he was a wily coyote type of guy, but he’s a very arrogant. So, you know, I, I mean, he hardly get along with anybody.

01:38:24:04 – 01:38:52:09
Unknown
So maybe the more you think that is why it doesn’t make sense. You know, of course, he tried to hit a motive. Well, you know what to do this way. You that, you know, I think you’re just mad at the world in general. That’s that’s why. But of course, they’re not going to believe me anyway. No, they’re definitely they’re not going to believe you no matter what you say.

You know, it doesn’t matter. I mean, we have to they have to paint Oswald as completely innocent. Innocent as the the white snow around us. And It’s just it’s unbelievable. Yes. Yes, it is. It really is. Isn’t there something in general, more or less, the House Select Committee hearings Tuesday, I think they got something wrong. The wrong bullet.

You mean he we thought that’s not the bullet, but he was thinking the wrong thing. Yes, let me explain that. I went through the Walker papers over and that’s another badly misinterpreted thing. Walker not objecting to. Walker was objecting to the House Select Committee News, watching the televised hearings on TV and. Somebody held up the bullet that he thought was like a pristine bullet, just the bullet like C 399.
Walker was objecting. That was not the bullet that that shot at him easily is described as a hunka lit. And it pretty much was only one side of it. He was objecting to that. He was not objecting to. Well, that’s not the bullet that’s in the next longer. Well, this got all the way back to I guess somebody now selectable this is get the root of this and somebody at the Justice Department, Robert Coutu, is named all over.

A representative from the National Archives. Got that bullet out of the archives, went over to the FBI lab with the microscopes and knew that intimately. And they said, let’s it you know where the initial here’s the evidence boxes. We have Carl Davis name on there but they just badly misinterpret that and then they keep repeating it like it’s fact.

01:40:48:07 – 01:41:14:19
Unknown
Right. But you can’t you know, I don’t know. I mean, I just hope somebody with two brain cells out there can figure it out then. Well, look, thank you very much for for being on on the trail. The usual. We’ll have to save your story about C 399 and the initials on that for another episode. But it thank you very much.

A lot of fun lucky for us thank you for taking time out and good work.