mattkprovideo.com/2025/06/24/episode-18-rough-cut/

subtitles should be readable later today

rest of us Okay So let me introduce it and then we’ll go from there Ready okay Welcome to another edition of On the Trail of Delusion where we try to separate fact from fiction try to separate the wheat from the chaff and actually give you something substantial on the JFK assassination rather than the usual conservative nonsense you find on YouTube

Today we have an extra special edition of On the Trail of Delusion I’d like to have my friend Steve Roe kick it off with some introductions Steve

uh hi everybody Good to see you And uh this is kind of an interesting story
it started with Dennis Morset here
he obtained the audio files of a wiretap operation of Marina Oswald back in roughly March of 1964
And for all those advanced researchers
they knew most people know there was a wiretap operation on her for a brief amount of time
But now for the first time now we can hear these audio files and surprisingly they’re very very clear
I mean the phone tap is there was a phone tap and then there was a uh a listening device or bug placed inside her home as well and that was placed up uh up in the attic
going over through some light fixtures in her living room dining room and uh bedroom
But those those are a little bit fuzzy
But anyway most of the wire type stuff is is really crystal clear
So uh it’s remarkable hearing it
let me give a little background on this just to lead it up
most people know that Marina was after the assassination was taken to the end of Six Flags and she was by the uh Secret Service and they held her under pretty much under guard
protected her and interviewed her And and then
Peter Gregory was one of the first main translators there
And then later they swapped to a other translator
from there uh she went uh I should back up and say that from there at seeing the Six Flags somehow she made contact with the manager there named James Martin or Jim Martin and Mr Martin became friendly with her and then convinced her uh he wanted to be her business manager
And a lot of this stuff in the tape is talking about this uh business manager agreement
And I’ll get to that a little later But uh so anyway Marina ends up signing a written contract for 10 years with Mr Martin as a business manager
And after the end of Six Flags uh she moved in with the Martin family
And there was some stuff that went on there that I’m not going to really get into
It’s not all that important Uh and there’s a lot of stuff in in this tape that’s you know it’s personal stuff
But uh anyway she had she spent some time with the Martin family and then there was some type of uh breakup on that thing and then uh she ended up in Dallas with uh some of the Russian immigrant community
And there was a couple of families that kind of took her in but most namely was uh uh a couple named uh Katcha Ford and her husband Beckon Ford
And a lot of these tapes and Mariana knows this very well is a lot of discussion in Russian with Katcha Ford
And Katcha Ford has a very very interesting life Uh
oh man I could take up another podcast getting into that
But uh she was in her 30s basically uh late 30s and Marina Oswald at that time was only 22 years old
We’re talking about March of 1963
So uh anyway they kind of befriended her took care of her and they’re trying to help her get out of this written contract with the Martin guy
And they got a a lawyer uh named William uh what’s his last name i forgot Dennis It’s McKenzie Bill McKenzie
So he he got involved with it and he’s trying to negotiate out and which they they eventually didn’t negotiate that contract out
for they wanted $40,000 to get to break the contract but that got negotiated down to 12,000 in July of 64 and we have film clips of that
so anyway the forger kind of were looking after Marina taking care of her and then decided you know Marina had two children
You know she had June and he had that baby Rachel
and uh so it’s a pretty full household over there at the Ford family
So uh meanwhile uh Marina got a lot of donations from well-wishers
you know kind-hearted people throughout the nation probably from the world trying to support her y
ou know and I think the estimate I saw was somewhere about $65,000 in 1964 somewhere there about
So she had some money built up and uh so decision was made that she wanted to get her own home and the Fords kind of helped her with that
and they located a rental home nearby not too far away in Richardson Texas
which is a suburb just north of Dallas
So they helped her with that Uh
okay Now meanwhile backing up a little bit she did testify to the Warren Commission in January of ‘ 64
So uh after that testimony uh let’s just say there were some people that were skeptical of her
I mean she wasn’t forthcoming
Some were thought otherwise and there was all kinds of stuff
And this got out uh you know Dennis and I talked about this a little bit uh whether it was Earl Warren himself or somebody else on the commission could be
Anyway the word got over to Jay Lee Rankin from the Warren Commission which was a chief counsel over there and he uh talked to the FBI and there were some they wanted what they wanted to do
They were afraid that she would skip out Uh there was probably some suspicion about her being a contact with Russian agents and whatever you know
and they just wanted to get surveillance on her
Well there was two types of surveillance
There was a physical surveillance where FBI did once she got into her new home over there in Richardson did stakeouts on her uh coming and going
who people she’s seeing and they did that
But also this is kind of this murky area Uh kind of a wink and a nod You know maybe
Dennis can elaborate on that a little later And uh
but uh they decided to get a wiretap monitor electronic surveillance
So uh this went through the FBI and the FBI was not happy with it
Uh you can see u Alan Belmont of the FBI his stuff that he was totally against it
Uh he thought it was pretty naive Uh
and then it and Hoover himself was pretty against it you know
he had thought that they this was this was really setting up the FBI to possibly get caught doing this wiretapping operation
and that would embarrass Hoover’s FBI Legitimate concerns
So anyway long story short uh this went up to uh uh they passed it up to the Justice Department which the FBI works under
the Justice Department and Robert Kennedy which we have the document on signed off on the wiretap and electronic surveillance
And so now this you know went through Kennedy
So this operation eventually went down to Dallas FBI officer and a guy named Matt Kingston an FBI agent
I guess he was kind of the technical wiretap guru I don’t know whatever
But he was he was the one that actually placed the wire taps on that rental home in Richardson
And uh I believe that was on February 29th right before uh Marina moved into that new place and so they set all this stuff up
Now what they had to do is monitor these wire tap
So not too far away Uh Marina lived at uh what was it 629 Belt Line Road
and they had uh some type of setup operation listening post at 1614 Beltline Road not that far away
and where the FBI was in there monitoring it
There was a man named Russian Russian uh FBI agent named Boguslav And Mariani
you have to forgive my Texas accent
So uh pretty bad in Russian but but uh anyway they did this and it went on for about two weeks
uh just shy of two weeks and it got discontinued
And but anyway that’s kind of the leadup background story of it Uh
so Dennis and I talked about this Uh you know you could do a Google translation but something gets lost in that
you know Yeah
So we decided to try to find a Russian speaker and uh Mariana helped us out a lot on this
So uh she understands the language uh all the inflections that goes on into the uh
how the people talk and and you know
you get a good feel talking live instead of just on a piece of paper
So uh what I’d like to do at this point is uh turn it over to Mariana and get her take on this uh these tapes Uh cuz a lot of it I don’t know maybe 35 40% of it is in Russian
Uh most of it’s with Katcha Ford Uh
there’s another lady named uh Anna I think that’s I forgot her name now Anna Ray and maybe another one too
But uh anyway Mariana how would you like to what’s your impression of these tapes when you first listen to

well um uh first of all thank you Steve I am I am not a professional interpreter
I’m actually a filmmaker and um um I was uh looking at it from the standpoint of um a Russian speaker
former Russian journalist who became a filmmaker and um to my opinion it could make um an interesting short film called The Widow
for the whole um you know these five tapes But um this is just my personal view um of you know it it could make an interesting story of a situation of a young girl 22 23 who um became involved in in probably the most significant murder in in American history
as as the widow of the murderer Um um these tapes uh to me say a lot about her character about who she was as a as a person as a human being Um I do believe at 22 you are a formed human being You can say what uh you know judging by what your interests are you are you are pretty formed in my opinion especially back then 22 was a mature age to my degree to my to my opinion but ask questions Maybe I could um shed the light I I wanted to add that she wasn’t just talking to women She was talking to George Bouche
I think um who was um um also seems like quite a character a lawyer um uh for a while And um there was an interesting dynamic between then because George was unmarried and 60 and she was 23 and uh she was bored out of her mind stuck in that house and she want to cook for him as many Russian housewives wanted like to to make a fish or to you know and he would say look I am unmarried um that would look strange I don’t want to you know compromise myself I don’t want to compromise you I can talk to Katya who is married I can’t talk to you after hours or I can’t come to you after hours A lot of very interesting details like that But ask questions

Sure Do you have any questions you’d like to ask

STEVE ROE:
yes I would like to know um your parents were alive your parents were alive in 1963 when this happened
Did have they ever talked to you about the GFK assassination what the their impressions uh did they believe in a conspiracy

Marianna:
I grew up in Moscow I was born and raised in Moscow And I must say that in in an in a family of Russian intelligencia right you know my father was a rocket scientist my mother was a playright
And honestly um I was born after you know I was born in the 70s
So um I think it wasn’t um uh it wasn’t very much of an agenda in the 70s in the in or especially the 80s in uh um in the Soviet Union
I think one of the biggest things was that it you know this was not connected of course from their standpoint with um KGB
That was the main point that this had no connection uh but my parents never discussed it and in fact you know any kind of his American historical milestones were not big in the 70s and 80s um uh in the family um you know in in the family circle I see what what did uh what’s your impression did she say did she give any information about what she thought about Oswald her husband yes
I think that um I was a little bit surprised that there was not in the private conversation between her and Katya and they were very very personal It just didn’t seem like she was um in love in any way of form You know
that was not it didn’t sound to me like she was um you know a young woman in love It w it sounded she was a mother of her children and it seemed like she had the duty uh to him Uh
for example there was a long conversation about the grave you know she would say things like
I want to make sure that his grave looks um decent that
it’s not just a little uh hill like Americans do but it’s a decent Russian type grave with a little fence and a cross
because then she ended her speech to Katya that they even bury dogs with you know with with some decency and he deserves it even though many people think he’s a dog
but he was a human being
So that was an interesting dialogue that I remember and that touched me because you know as a filmmaker I thought you know you take this dialogue and only at the end you revealed who that is that it’s the widow of you know the biggest murderer sort of you know that that that could be an interesting that could be an interesting scene Another um uh impression that I received from listening to her is that she wants to hope that it wasn’t him or wasn’t just him That maybe he took the gun maybe he took the gun but didn’t shoot Maybe there was someone else Maybe you know what if there was this uh uh can of coke how could he run so quickly and then very quickly his um conversation partner Karta says “It’s none of your business to speculate Let them deal with it It’s none of your business.” And she keeps saying “But I want to hope.”

But I understand but I don’t but I want to I understand So to me it it the impression was she understands he was a killer but she wants to hope that maybe he isn’t Yes Was there any anger in her voice at all absolutely not I’ve only heard anger in her voice when she was yelling at her kids Like from shut up to stop it And it was loud and completely you know unbelievable But in fact both she and Katya were yelling at their kids like crazy [Laughter] Russian kids

STEVE ROE:

what’s your impression of Katchcha?
when you listen to her you know she was I I don’t know how you describe her I wouldn’t call her a mother to Marina but maybe an older sister advisor

She seems to be to me in my impression she seems to be a lot more learning a lot more I don’t know she’s just kind of guiding and helping But what’s your impression of her um she was a I don’t know much about her background Um uh she seems like um uh older old older generation immigrant
So she’s much more integrated into the American society So Russian is much worse than Marina’s She also mixes Russian and English creative this ring English rose English um um sort of um a hybrid language like you know they would say the word lawyer and then they would conjugate it like the like it would be a Russian word
she seems like a yes like an older friend um and they discuss very intimate things from women’s sexual desire to cheating to other women
there’s so much gossip going on Um you know and when Marina pronounces the word cake in relation to one of the lawyers you know how cakes are Katya kind of nods says “Yeah I do.” You know and so it’s um you know I I wouldn’t particularly think of Katya as somebody uh very um spiritual or uh um super intelligent She’s a mother She is a housewife Um and uh if if she was aware I don’t know if she it was she was aware that these conversations were recorded No Right She wasn’t Right Of course Um it just seems I did seem there was a little bit of a like a backstabbing uh aspect to this so-called friendship Okay How how was Marina’s English uh uh it’s hard to say because she only spoke Russian with Katya Okay And uh but she did uh uh and and with the you know everybody who spoke with her spoke spoke Russian as well So they spoke Russian But she definitely could do it seems like you know she could say hello goodbye and understand when somebody would warn her don’t talk to journalists and you know we’re all asleep you know things like that She she could she could get by but she would definitely preferred to speak Russian to anybody who could So new to it I would say

Denns you you’ve gone through the transcripts or is there anything that that sticks out in your mind from the the transcripts yes my favorite parts um are on in tape number nine where they discuss the GFK case Marina and Katya discussed the GFK case and Tippet murder as well Um now it seems that Katya is reading the the newspapers and uh she she relays the information that she found in those newspaper to Marina and she she’s trying to get Marina’s reaction from the tom

Now I have a few parts here that I have

[Music] Okay Uh typic says “Yeah but the policeman caught him caught Leon in the theater and he didn’t get away He shot him he shot him in the leg in the chest in the back.” So um that’s a bit confusing but um she’s talking about the part where Lee Oswald kills Tibet And then Marina says “I don’t know why he did that.” Katya says “Maybe he just wanted to run somewhere to think about what to do next.” The first thing that she comes uh the first thing that comes to mind is a theater because it’s dark there And Marina asked “You think so?” Katia answers “Many people do that Just sit and think about what to do next.” So um there um

and then the fingerprint CIA relates to Marina that they found um a fingerprint um on the rifle and Marina tries to find um a way to to explain that She says um he Lee could have held could have held the raffle and his fingerprint stays on it and give the raffle to somebody else So she still believes she thinks that Lee did the shooting but she thinks that maybe there was a somebody else um doing the shooting as well but she doesn’t have anything to prove just um

so do you do you think in in your in your estimation is that did Marina believe Oswald was guilty and she was only searching for something to psychologically help her through this yes I think so Um however she relied a lot on the war commission She she trust the commission to have the the expertise expertise and all the knowledge to find the truth

But she she keeps an open mind She’s she tries to get as much information as she can but she doesn’t read the English newspapers only the Russian newspapers Oh okay [Music] Not sure how accurate were the Russian newspapers because maybe they had an agenda as well to um to direct the guilt on the uh far right in the US

That’s a possibility Yeah
Steve Roe:
Mariana you you you said an interesting thing about Katchcha
in your estimation was h you almost felt like it was a backbing type of operation
And you know what i think that’s kind of clear Uh okay Because I read through Katchcha’s Ford’s Warren Commission’s testimony and one time she called her an immature person
Yeah From her Warreb commission testimony, So uh so maybe she wasn’t really a true friend or whatever but uh she certainly
Marianna :
I my impression was you know I I don’t want to see you know criticize too much
My impression was that they were both immature from their conversations you know see none of them seemed like um you know they didn’t talk about anything uh intellectual or spiritual or um you asked about my family for example You know this is this was like a different class of people All they talked about was uh uh flowers furniture uh the price of steak at the time was $6 Uh you know they um whether their husbands were employed or unemployed Kaiser’s husband was unemployed Um they talked about sex and men Um but there was nothing about literature nothing about theater nothing She was talking that she was bored You know Marina was really bored So um it’s the type of person who would be very bored by herself and then they yelled at the kids and then they’re it seemed like a a bit of a not an intellectual pair of women Okay Thank you

Is Dennis still with us i’m not sure But um No it’s Yes I’m still there Okay
It’s it’s I mean it’s fascinating and I think it’s it’s I mean I think you know I’ve seen this in other posts that I’ve that I’ve put in that there in other interviews where Marina was always looking for some angle that maybe in fact she said I want to help It’s for the children She said in another interview I posted on my blog It’s for the children And I want the children to feel better about things If I could find some evidence that it wasn’t Lee or it was somebody else it’s be psychologically better for the children Do you get a sense of her concern for her children about what had happened uh if this is a question for me uh obviously it does seem despite the yelling it does seem like she is a good mother you know she she says things like how can I even go studies somewhere to you know they don’t understand I have those two kids and isn’t it full happiness to be a mother and um when somebody tells her oh she got knocked up again you know when she was still married to Lee she says don’t they understand by saying so you know rudely that being a mother is happiness um yes I think that she she had children’s interest in mind all the time so that she had

but also she was um she was um you know she Yes She was saying that if Lee w were to to be found innocent it it would be of course better for her for her and for the kids Yes Yeah That’s that’s very very natural uh thing for for a mother to feel Sure And she was a young mother by today’s standards She was a young mother But um so was Ka and you know I don’t think that that was such a big age difference um for Kaiser to call her immature I think that Marina was pretty mature for her age dealing with two kids and and being at the center of media attention with journalists basically showing up um at her door morning and night and the fact that she went through the you know immigrating to another country I mean that’s that’s a very very big step as well right so she was under huge huge amount of stress Uh that that’s that’s for sure And so I would I would not call her immature She was calm through all these five tapes you know aside from few segments with the kids She was calm and quiet and very composed So um you know she was never kind of losing it Um as except for like I said so Steve the Warren did the the Warren Commission got all the transcripts Did they get the tapes i’m sorry Can you repeat it did the Warren Commission get the transcripts and tapes uh they did not They they they have a bogus sloth uh actually did like a summary right Dennis and that got Yes that’s correct Just summary Uhhuh But uh in But in those summaries they don’t talk about microphones or What yeah They make it sound like it’s somebody who told them somebody who heard overheard a conversation without naming that person but they they try I think they were very careful not to mention any war tapes or tapping Did they make any judgments in in their analysis of what they were hearing or how they reported it conclusions

uh or was it just straight reporting

that’s correct Just before Bob he just he just did a summary and skipped over a lot of stuff but uh that’s what my impression was and then it’s what’s your impression of it yes I have a question for Mariana regarding those uh those reports from the VI Um we’ll talk about it in the email We mentioned that in the email where um George Buu uh no the Ford Ketty Ford and his her husband were in Mexico uh in September 1964 Uh we have we we remember that Leos was in Mexico uh city trying to get a passport to Cuba Cuba in late September and um we were not sure if the force were in Mexico in at the same time as Leos was there but you found out the you listen to the tapes and you figure out that they were in Mexico after that their kids went entered in school Is that correct uh uh so this was the situation Um I think Lee was in uh uh Mexico at the end of se September right and um uh George was in Mexico I think in uh uh July right but he was invited to come in September and he said he was signing a sigh of relief when um you know that he didn’t go when he you know found out what had happened side a side of relief and then of the Fords were saying Katya was saying that they went to Mexico in September as well and then uh she was saying on the phone that she doesn’t remember the exact date when in September and then I mean I can’t say 100% you know who knows maybe she was on guard or lying but she said I remember that it was under after the kids went to school started school so it was in September but I think she was hinting at early September versus late September But I don’t know what exactly happened When did they go

they went to Mexico but uh we don’t know in what city Could be it’s not necessarily Mexico City That’s something we we’ll never know Yeah Uh I think that uh yeah it’s unclear I think I think they mean Mexico City but not but I’m surprised that the Warren Commission didn’t try they were aware of that information They interviewed Marina Oswwell later on and they also interviewed the Fords uh is something that they could have asked them Yeah they for some reason didn’t ask uh you know that’s what Kata and Marina was talking about The Marina said said but you were never asked about Mexico so you shouldn’t be worried Mhm

Okay Great Any any other comments before we wrap up no

I would like to Maria to talk about herself about the work that she has done I think she won a prize for filming or in the film industry Can you elaborate on that um I uh uh made a film um called Women of the Gulag uh which was shortlisted for an Academy Award and um we made it with um uh Paul Gregory who actually wrote the book uh um about um uh Marina and Lee called the Oswells Um so that’s you know that’s how I you know I’m I’m even here because um Paul Gregory and I made this film together Paul was one of the producers of women of the gag and um later uh Paul published a book uh called the untold tale of Marina and Leo And uh that’s how I know about the transcripts and that’s how I ended up um uh translating and transcribing the tapes and thinking this could make at least a short film called The Widow

Beautiful Well we appreciate your help with the transition
Thank you so much Very much Yeah Thank you We really appreciate it It would make a good film
Thank you Fred and Dennis and Steve
You’re welcome
Thank you All right Bye Bye Bye See you later
Fred Litwin:
Steve Any comments ?

Steve Roe:
yeah Uh uh there’s a lot on that tape is kind of interesting Uh and Dennis knows this too Uh perhaps like uh Patricia McMillan Johnson Uh she was pursuing Marina all the way back in early 1964 Her name was mentioned in there That was kind of interesting to know Uh of course they later signed the Marina and Elite book earlier on but uh so yeah there’s there’s a there’s quite a good stuff There’s a good story about uh uh and Dennis and I were laughing about this about Darwin Payne Uh Dennis you want to talk about that

yes Um Darwin Payne um entered the house I think he didn’t even knock or maybe Marina didn’t hear the knocking and um and in any case
she let Marina let Darwin Wayne Payne was um a reporter for the Dallas Times Herald and she thought he was an FBI agent
and she just let him in and um the rest um I think uh she called uh decline for and the clan for asked her to kick him out that he should not be there and she was very worried that she she lets anybody in come in and you never know somebody could well not speak anything but it could be somebody who could do harm to her that’s true Darwin Payne is still alive I will ask him if he remembers that art Yeah he’d probably like to listen to that because that’s pretty interesting Yeah they ended up booing them out of there There’s all kinds of good interesting story A lot of it is uh talking about the the Martin contract uh how they were going to get out of it Uh Robert Oswall’s on tape as well And uh who else is in there i forgot Dennis Bullard quite a few other there’s some teenage girls talking I think one of babysitters over there uh talking about the Beatles that was pretty interesting so all these little side stories that go along with this tape uh the most important thing as Dennis alluded to was you know the Russian conversation uh with Katchcha and uh talking about her husband and that’s the most interesting And something in the tape that was interesting as well Uh Marina um learns about um I think Katu told her that Lee was seen drinking a Coca-Cola Coca-Cola 10 minutes after the shooting and she said that Lee would never eat or drink if he was nervous So she thought that after killing um after the shooting he would never eat or drink But of course it was not 10 minutes after the shooting It was 90 seconds I believe when when the patrol man Marion Baker uh saw when he entered the building when Baker entered the building And she Katel relates as well to Marina that a man was seen running across the yard um in front of the Texas school boat depository And Marina thinks that he could he could have done the shooting as well But she doesn’t believe that Lee had an accomplice that he had help but she thinks that somebody could just have happened to be there in Dlay Plaza and doing the shooting at the same time as Lee Um she bases um this thought on um that there was not enough space between two shots So um not enough space between two shot means two shoulders That’s what she thought

That’s interesting She was clearly reading some of the press to get this information about the timing of the shots Oh yeah But you you it is clear that she believes her that that her husband did it Uh part of it Yep And I think that was in Bogus uh report as well uh with General Walker too So I can’t remember where Walker’s name is mentioned in here but I think I can’t remember Do you remember Dennis yes it is mentioned

But uh I think she’s I don’t want to speculate I don’t want to misremember what she said about Walker

And other than that we’re pausing here Matt’s in here now Yeah Well what they did out this

what else there

yeah they they they concluded that she thought she he killed President Tippet and Walker in that that report Yeah And there is um there’s something um are we still recording or it will be edited it’ll be edited so don’t worry Yeah just to tell you one bit Um okay Marina says uh maybe Lee didn’t hit the president Now I hear some uh some feedback Could Can you hear the feedback as well okay Um okay Maybe Lee didn’t hit the president He knew better who he was shooting at Maybe she’s talking about Connelly because I think that’s that’s what she thought at first Is it what she said in her Secret Service interview that she thinks she thought that Lee was shooting McConnell by accident she shot Kennedy Not she but Lee shot Kennedy I think that’s what she means here But we’re not Russian and we can just go according to what we have here right i trust the translation is correct But

um that’s true I read that as well that she thought maybe he he was shooting at Connley

and uh Okay about the bag Um she but I didn’t see any bag with Lee when he arrived on Thursday He had nothing in his hands and he he was always in view He couldn’t have hidden a bag at that time Um but I think the Warren Commission shed said that he was having the bag in his back pocket Is it is a back pocket big enough to put that bag even if you fold the bag yeah you could obviously that that bag is folded and he could have stuffed that in his jacket or he could stuff them down in his pants or Oh yeah Yeah I think it’s probably a little bit big for his back pockets but uh I think she got a little confused on bag you know Uh she was thinking like I don’t know a laundry bag or something I don’t know But uh but yeah that thing was folded Yeah he could have hid that anywhere And of course that’s what you want to do is hide it you know So uh that’s that’s pretty clear to me And um other than depth um

and bringing that up too as well you know she when the police showed up over there the detective showed up over there helm and uh asked him if he had a rifle and she knew exactly where it was and there You know everybody knows that story Just an empty blanket Yeah Um other than that um Okay we covered um who approved RFK approved the the technical surveillance but did uh Robert understand what was the technical surveillance did he think it was just agents uh in a house watching the house or did he understand there were microphones and wart tapping did he understand that i think he did Dennis because uh you know he RFK was heavily involved with the mafia investigations too and they they all they wiretapped a lot of mafia leaders you know Okay Okay And I’m sure he understood that fully and I’m sure explained that to him And I’m pretty sure Ren King was very careful not to to mention any wire tapping He wanted Hoover to understand himself that he was he wanted tapping and microphones and do you think so because it’s just a phone call Franken never wrote a letter to Hoover asking whatever He just phone Hoover He knew there would be no trace of the call and no paper trail to to come back to at him later on So he just call Hoover even though there is a document that says that Ren King uh paid a visit to Hoover but uh the visit was crash scratched out and it was replaced with phoned Is it possible there was a visit and he didn’t want to people to know that it was a visit or does it make any difference a visit or a phone call i don’t know It’s a good question Um one question I have for you I’m I’m not asking for details but I I think was it clear that Marina was having some affairs um you know after the assassination

you want me to ask answer that Dennis stevie go there or should we even go there uh well I don’t think we need the details but it is a I think a well it’s question it’s in the record that certainly with Jim Martin uh uh when they business business manager yeah the business manager when they went to Washington DC for the first uh testimony they were in a hotel up there for the hotel run off But uh anyway uh they this was discussed in the tapes and we I don’t think Dennis talked about this This is pretty touchy area Yep Intimacy and and all this stuff and uh but yeah she did But uh I have all the tapes Anyway um I think Mariana did a transition of everything Russian So I can indicate later on to Fred where where to find that information Yeah it’s not that I’m just I think it’s more in a general sense I’m not interested in details No Martin for sure people Harold Wasber mentioned Robert Oswald as well I don’t know where he got that information from but Priscilla McMillan Johnson mentioned in her book about Robert Oh in the book Huh no no no

I think Marina talked to her about it or whatever But yeah that certainly brought up

but you know she’s a widow you know but there’s married men around too Yeah for sure Since she was young and good-looking Very good looking back then Yes Very good Yep And uh I think she they were they were talking about Josh Morenial as well Uh was it he was a strong man and Marina said she was ashamed of Lee because he was a weak man I guess she she meant that he doesn’t last long in bed Just a one minute or less than one minute You need a man who can last an hour or two and she mentions those things It sure did Yeah there’s Yeah there’s a lot of that talk in in those tapes and mainly with gotcha and but yeah there’s it’s pretty fascinating when you listen to it You know the bug uh that was placed inside the home it it’s very very hard to tell I mean it’s you know they’re talking from a distance but uh there’s the other people So I don’t know Dennis what do you think about that bug recording uh it’s helpful There is a lot a lot of feedback we hear all along throughout there are there are spots where you can hear people talking about baseball or something TV you can hear the TV but nothing interesting No not at all But fascinating looking through her life back then you know uh and uh I think I don’t know what we’re going to do with it Dennis Uh and we can edit this stuff out as well Yeah Do we do we do we want to put the recording do you want to put the recordings on uh on the YouTube for public

or you want to hold off or just certain things

well yeah Matthew will edit out the the sensitive part Yeah [Music] Well I’m sorry I’m not a very good communicator Um I don’t think I did Are you going to put the Are you going to put the YouTube uh audio on on you are you going to put the tapes on on YouTube yes I have um Well for now they are um they are private I have three of them I will up upload everything today and uh they will be available for the public uh sometimes uh tonight Okay good cuz once Matthew finishes with this audio with this recording we’ll uh be able to put all the links on my blog to the actual tapes Yes Yes Good idea And uh can Matthew play a few a few bits of the tapes uh during the podcast like in the middle yes If you if you actually tell him what to play Yes Yes Yes Yes We can definitely play some bits during the during the podcast Yeah Uh last thing I wanted to mention to see if you remember in tape one um FBI agent um was it Wallace Heightsman he’s talking to u he’s trying to distract Marina he said he’s going to take um Marina in a car and they are going to drive where Lee used to live in Oakliff during that time they could set up the microphones in the house Is that correct is that what they did or do you remember that or uh yeah I remember that hipman taking her out to to Beckley over there I think went along as well for for translating but I don’t know I I don’t know when they actually put the bug in if they put them all at the same time My understanding is reading through these these documents and I listen to Matt Pinkson’s oral history as well uh you know he was another did the wire tap I don’t know if he did the actual bug part He may have but he they did this before she moved in and and documents it say he uh he did it at night and as described it if I recall right uh he dressed up as a utility man kind of like a maintenance man came out there in like a work van Yes uh and just just masquerading there And then he went under I believe under a crawl space under the house and to place the wire tap on the phone Now he’d have to go inside Somebody had to go inside the home you know to put go up in the attic and put the bugs in I don’t know uh if he did that or not You would think he would have done that all at one time when she wasn’t there you know So that’s that’s kind of what I’m leaning toward Dennis you probably put them all in at one time Uh and then uh uh we’ll see what happens you know So but you know extremely clear I don’t know if you listen to them yet uh uh Fred but the wire tap just crystal clear right no I have not listened to them Yeah very clear

There’s a lot of interesting things There’s probably a few stories we forgot huh Dennis so there’s so much on those tapes Uh but a lot of it’s just it’s mainly uh you know mundane things like Marina shopping you know decorating furniture kids stuff and stuff like that So a lot of that on the tapes are are consumed with that type of talk you know uh the English part mainly where uh they’re talking about uh Jim Martin you know the contract and everything like that So and then of course Robert Oswald’s over there and he’s trying to help Marina as well get out of that contract So so there’s a lot of there’s a whole mish mash of stuff in there but the most important part is the Russian part in our opinion Right Well I guess what what what should happen is I guess uh we should give uh Matt the salient part portions and I don’t know whether uh he wants to then interview uh Denise to talk about each of those segments and then embed it into the video Yes I’d be better prepared as well Yeah Okay So look I’m going to end this recording and uh we’ll let uh Matthew do his uh his little editing job Well Matt’s right here You want got any anything you want to tell him right off before we sign off no Matt anything you need for me right now before we sign off all right the the Russian Polish woman You missed that on the first part Yeah All right I thought it was Okay Well thank you very much everybody This has been another edition of On the Trail of Delusion And thank you Steve thank you Denise and thank you Mariana Take care Thank you so much

did she give any information about her Husband, Oswald?

I’m Fred Litwin and welcome to another episode of On The Trail or Delusion,
where we try to seperate the fact from fiction, try to sepearate the wheat from the chaff and actually give you something substantial on the JFK assassination,
rather than the usual conspiracy nonsense you find on youtube,
Today we have three guests discussing the recently discovered telephone surveilance tapes of Marina Oswald.
My guests are Steve Roe who is……….
Dennis Moricet who is …….
and Marianna Yarovskaya who is….
Now lets have Steve Roe tell us the backstory of these tapes….

Marianna Yarovskaya

21:55 denny youve gone through transcripts
then dennis close up

re shoot steves asking marianna backstabbing question
did warren commission get the tapes
bodislave did a summary
bodislave just did a summary and skipped over a lot of stuff

32:33 woman

theres a lot on that tape thats kinda interesting, priscilla johnson was pursuing marina
darwin paine, dennis you want to talk about that?

thats true yeah, hed probaly like to listen to that

46:48 fred and dennis split screen

they concluded he (Oswald) Probably killed the president, tippur and walker at that point

thats true Ive read that as well. She thought that Maybe Lee was shooting at Connelly.

When the Police showedup at the Paine House, and asked Marina if Lee had a rifle, she knew exactly where it was. Everybody knows that story.

theres all kinds of good interesting stories.
Robert Oswald is onthat tape, some teenage babysutters talking about the Beatles.

robert kennedy approved surveilance

I think he was, Dennis, Robert Kennedy was heavuly involved with the Mafia investigations. And they wiretapped a lot of the mobsters.

Tap on Marina Oswald’s Room Reported by Ex‐F.B.I. Official
Share full article