Mort Sahl and Elliot Mintz discus JFK, Jim Garrison, and RFK
www.mattkprovideo.com/2025/08/22/mort-sahl-discusses-jfk-jim-garrison-and-rfk/
Elliot Mintz:
I met Mort Saul in the early 1960s. He was one of America’s great satirists,
0:10political commentators, comedians, and social observers.
0:17Although the landscape of the genre was dominated by Lenny Bruce and Mort,
0:24he was far more cerebral, less costic,
0:29and made a point of never using a four-letter word on stage
0:35or for that matter having a drink or smoking a joint
0:40ever. He recorded the first comedy album
0:46He was the first comedian on the cover of Time magazine. He sold out nightclubs all over the
0:53country. He wrote jokes for President Kennedy.
0:59He has appeared as an actor in a number of films, hosted a television show, wrote screenplays and autobiography,
1:07and became my first political and social mentor.
1:13There came a time in Mort Saul’s career where he developed an unquenchable
1:21curiosity about the assassination of President Kennedy and would venture to New Orleans
1:28where he volunteered his time to Jim Garrison, the district attorney who was
1:34portrayed in the Oliver Stone film JFK.
1:40Garrison prosecuted a man who he charged
1:45with being involved in a conspiracy to murder the president.
1:51For the record, that man was acquitted and Mortzaw returned to Hollywood where
1:58he was criticized, castigated, and deemed an unwelcome guest.
2:07He lives in Northern California now and we still remain friends
2:13over 40 years. He has never forgotten to call and wish me a happy birthday.
2:20I still consider him to be one of the most astute observers
2:26of the American political experience. KPFK listener supported Pacifica radio
2:32Los Angeles. My name is Elliot Mintz. is looking out. Mort, it is just like I can’t tell you
2:38what a gas it is to have you here tonight. Well, we moved heaven and earth, Elliot, as you know, and the
2:44listeners don’t know. Um the um there’s an abundance of riches in addition to uh
2:50uh first I was doing nothing. I don’t know how many of the listeners know that in addition to um doing the show after
2:57you and I got together and we decided to do this and it uh then of course uh they
3:03called from New York and said they had a Johnny Carson show for me in that way that they have of calling that always
3:09sounds like you know Operation Head Start. They’re going to help me urban renewal. The fact is they have a lot of
3:15letters and they can’t hold uh the audience on a chain that much longer. They want to know if I’m dead or not.
3:21So, uh, they’re going to import me for the show and they want to do it Monday and, uh, I that would mean, of course,
3:27flying in Sunday because you have to report at noon in order to, uh, brief the producer. So, um, there’s no way to
3:33do it. They won’t let you fly in that day because they’re afraid of weather delays. Then they wouldn’t let me. I
3:39said, uh, well, I have a show to do in Los Angeles, uh, on Sunday. And they
3:45said, cancel it. And I said, I can’t do that. And then they said I said, I’ll have to cancel this. Well, you’ve been
3:50canceling a lot of shows, you know, that won’t look too good. And um then of course the singular morality. Then they
3:57I said, “What about Tuesday?” They said, “Well, you couldn’t be on because Bob Hope is on Tuesday and he has a
4:02different position than you on Vietnam.” They told me that. So, I couldn’t be on with him. And um then, uh I finally put
4:10it off until Thursday. I’ll be on uh the Carson show uh Thursday night for those of you who have a duality of purpose and
4:17listen to KPFK and watch NBC, but uh they’re covering the full spectrum. I
4:22think Jim Garrison once described NBC as the network who believes in the right of the people to know, right?
4:28He’s not afraid of him, which is uh enough in itself. And I uh I spoke with
4:34um uh with Mark Lane this week who’s in New Orleans and I’ll be down there later this week uh after the New York trip.
4:41And um uh as you know he has a um bribery uh public bribery indictment
4:48against uh Walter Sheridan of NBC. And Walter Sheridan has a strange history uh
4:54for a broadcaster. Um as a matter of fact, Bill Stout of CBS once put it this
4:59way to me. He said when it came to the Garrison case, NBC didn’t use a reporter. They hired a house detective.
5:06They hired one of Robert Kennedy’s lawyers on the Hawa case to operate there. Yes, that’s who Walter Sheridan
5:11is. And he did the Frank McGee show which was called the case uh against Jim
5:17Garrison. and he went down there and Garrison has an indictment against him on the basis of uh publicly bri trying
5:24to bribe um Perry Russo to defect uh uh
5:29to the uh to California where he would not be extradited and to discredit Garrison publicly and um Garrison also
5:37charges in that indictment that uh Russo used uh I mean then not Russo Sheridan used the phrase I will destroy Garrison
5:44I’m here to destroy Garrison used it many times around New Orleans NBC turned that show over to Sheridan, not to any
5:52of its other um reporters. He felt, as he said in Playboy Garrison, that NBC
5:57had gone even they felt they had gone Sheridan had gone too far because they gave him equal time very quickly. They
6:03kind of backtracked. Uh, on the other hand, uh, we find with Newsweek, Newsweek’s continual blasts at Garrison,
6:09and I want to tell all the good liberals out there that that’s your journal. Phil Graham, the Washington Post, good social
6:15democrats, not Time magazine, not a fascistic magazine, but a good liberal magazine, Newsweek, uh, hired Hugh
6:22Ainsworth to cover Garrison. They said he’s an outstanding scholar, having worked for the Dallas Times Herald. Um,
6:29an outstanding scholar. Uh for instance um in his last exchange with Mark Lane in Dallas, he told Mark Lane uh uh uh
6:37something to the effect that uh Warren was not objective about uh Oswald because both of them are left wingers,
6:44extreme leftwingers. So that’s the guy that that Newsweek uh feels is an authority on the case. I want to begin
6:51at the beginning. All right. and follow this thing very very closely so we can really understand not only what’s
6:58surrounding the suppression of what Jim Garrison is doing in New Orleans but also what has been done against you
7:05personally. Now when did it there was a time that you were appearing in nightclubs and making billions and
7:10millions of dollars and selling record albums and you were a comedian and the rest of it and you didn’t talk about the
7:16assassination. Something then happened that obviously was to lead to the change of your entire life. When did it begin
7:22for you, Mort? When did you begin to Well, I began to uh ask questions about this case. I used to ask them socially
7:30and uh I couldn’t find anybody uh to answer me, but then I only mixed with liberals. Uh you know, so I that’s like
7:37looking for an honest man and not having a lamp. And then of course I uh I ran into um uh uh when I had the television
7:45show over at Channel 11. Uh we had uh Mark Lane was coming into town
7:52and he was originally scheduled on the Pine show and some uh benefactors steered him toward my program instead
7:59and he did cancel the Pine Show and they were furious and um as well they might be I suppose about a commitment and Mark
8:06Lane came on in October of um 196
8:14six right he came on with me and he made five appearances Publishers Weekly and the New York Times
8:20agree that Rush to Judgment is a national bestseller because of California and because of Southern California and more specifically because
8:26of that program. And uh yeah, we sold a lot of books. I told people it was the most important book in their lifetime. I
8:32told Lane when I met him that I thought he was the most important man in the country. Rush to judgement. Absolutely.
8:38And uh I think Garrison is now has now replaced him as the most important man in the country. Um when we um uh Mark
8:45and I got along very well and uh the shows were good. We found we didn’t need uh you know actors or fun and games or
8:52anything. We just had to talk and the people cared about it and uh we really got a storm going and because the people
8:59responded I kept going with it. Then of course the KAC show was in the works and I kept going with that. When the KAC
9:06show uh uh began to uh roll of course I got the first national interview with
9:12Garrison. And I got 90 minutes on tape with Garrison and Lane, which I uh uh I
9:17paid for my own trip to New Orleans because the station didn’t think it was worth it. After all, only a man investigating the murder of the
9:23president. This is radio station KAC. KAC. And I went down there and I came back and I played that. And of course,
9:28there was uh there was great suppression at KTV. The program director Jim Gates
9:34kept saying to me, um, well, theatrically, he said he said he wasn’t suppressing me. It wasn’t a matter of
9:39censorship. It was a matter of showmanship. And he said, “Theatrically, it’s boring just hearing you talk about Kennedy.” And even when I was finally
9:47fired at at KTTV the first time, which was uh a year ago, December, he came to
9:53my house and gave me my notice and said, “Your ratings are very bad and you’re going off.” And uh instead of leaving
10:00well enough alone, he uh then got nervous and said, “Uh uh, I think it’s
10:05because you just talked about the same thing all the time. Kennedy, Kennedy, Kennedy, we’re sick of hearing about Kennedy.” and I’m excising the
10:11profanity. So, um, uh, you know, as we al always say, speak for yourself, John
10:16Alden. I haven’t found too many, uh, uh, people in the American electorate who are really sick of talking about
10:22Kennedy. I find people who are cowed and who are fearful, but I don’t care what
10:27happens to them for talking about Kennedy. Anything that happens other than having your head blown off in Daily Plaza is somewhat anticlimactic.
10:34Um, sane men have grown insane on this subject. Um, for Robert Vaughn to be
10:43quizzed by Senator Robert Kennedy to be pursued around Senator Kennedy’s mansion. Why was Mort Saul fired? Why
10:51does he claim he was fired? And for Robert Vaughn to say, I was fearful of the interrogation, so I said I didn’t
10:57know. And then for Robert Vaughn publicly to declen
11:02Kennedy is a very busy man. and he has the world on his shoulders and uh he doesn’t have time to even know who Mort
11:08Saul is. I don’t know what makes people move this way but only in this case I have found some continuity of integrity
11:14on the part of people in any issue but this issue. Uh now I’m I’m skipping here
11:20chronologically which I don’t mean to do on you but um let me raise a question. Yes. Um at its peak your KAC uh
11:28telephone talk show and the KTV television show what were the ratings like? What was the audience response?
11:34The ratings the ratings on the television show uh were good and healthy and I think that it’s important uh for
11:40the audience to know that uh we presented 30 to 40 minutes of
11:46sketches every week and I wrote them and I produced the program myself and I was
11:52in the office seven days a week and I did all the monologues in between and I booked the guests. I was on there for
11:57two hours. I spent seven days in that office and I made $600 a week. gross.
12:03Now, that’s a pretty cheap way to bring in a show which is sold out on sponsorship. No sponsors complained and
12:09you must be very guarded about that. When you hear remarks such as KAC made about Arbagasta Margolus to have no
12:16sponsors, it has become uh a device in our society because uh there is a an
12:24integimement of new left feeling that capitalism will censure people that it’s
12:30the sponsors. It very seldom is the sponsors. How were your sponsors on the program? I never had any trouble in
12:36television. We’re sold out and they never complained. We even kided them, especially the used car people. We were
12:41sold out. Uh Gates himself said at the end of the show that uh when he finally discharged me for something he called
12:47insubordination. He said uh you are uh which we’ll get to
12:53in a second. He said the the ratings were healthy and the show was a good entertaining show. Uh but this guy can’t
12:59follow direction. That’s said many times and of course that may be said with uh
13:04uh gleam toward uh heading you off the path so that no one else will hire you either because it is a limited industry
13:10to begin with uh limited in courage limited in perspective limited in goals.
13:15Um when the radio program was on at the same time uh of course I had Harold
13:21Weissberg on I had Lane on and we rang up tremendous ratings. Jack theer who was uh the uh potentate at KAC brought
13:29the ratings by and the evening shift at KAC had a 177 the last time he brought them by which meant it passed KHJ people
13:37were really listening why were they listening because I was talking about their president whom they love I was talking about the draft which is every
13:43young man’s stake and uh I was talking about where I thought it was at because
13:50I was taking their pulse uh now because So they of course in the superstate uh
13:56to paraphrase Garrison they must drop you for not communicating. The fact is they drop you because you do
14:01communicate. That’s the real crime to reach other people. Uh I was never such
14:06an extraordinary man until I became an ordinary man and joined the people of course when I began to express really
14:12what was on their minds. But I took a different course of action. I took a a course of action which satisfied me. Now
14:20when they dropped the radio program they gave me no notice. The night they chose,
14:25I said to the audience, “Should I disappear, it is not voluntary. I’ll stay here as long as you need me and you
14:30want to talk to me.” And uh if I disappear, you must rise as an army. It is not voluntary. I played Kennedy’s
14:36inauguration, Roosevelt’s inauguration, and a garrison speech for 20 minutes. And the next day, I was told not to
14:43report. The agency that represented me at that time did not contest this. They’re not interested in money in a
14:48capitalistic society. We’re together to gather. which agency was and um creative management associates and uh they did
14:55not rise as an army. Um they u in fact one of the executives up there quoted me
15:00a story by Jill Sherry in the free press. It’s good to know they read the free press, isn’t it? It’s amazing, huh?
15:06They don’t quote it when it’s not convenient though. It’s got to be the free press on their terms. They’ve got to figure out some way, you know, of
15:12bringing it back home for them on a personal level. That’s right. Document it. Bring it back home. Very well put. So, the uh they dropped the show and uh
15:21uh somebody uh oh, I guess I shouldn’t I shouldn’t betray the confidence. Somebody who was influential here in
15:27town said to me, “You’re going to be dropped on television now. The only difference is the first time you were fired, and a lot of you remember this.
15:34When I was fired on television, I talked about it on the radio. The station got 31,000 letters and reinstated me. This
15:39time, 31,000 31,000 in 3 days at one source, Jim Gates. I got a couple of
15:44thousand myself up in Las Vegas at Caesar’s Palace and other people at the station got letters. That was the core
15:49of them in three days. This time they cut the live show, the radio show. Mhm. And then the television show was
15:55controlled by tape. So I immediately received a letter saying, “You’ve been fired on radio. That is regrettable. Do
16:00not discuss it on television. If you do, uh, this will be insubordination.” And then I got a series of of letters for
16:07record. They would come every day, special delivery from Jim Gates at KTTV, and they would say, “Do not discuss
16:13this.” Uh, KAC maintained that uh, Mort is gone, but anybody’s free to, he has
16:18his platform at KTTV. So Mark Lane then directed one of the
16:24young men on the citizens committee of inquiry, which I want to talk about later, to call the station and say that
16:30it is obvious I’m the only public platform for the district attorney in New Orleans and therefore it is his
16:36opinion that that contributed to my being fired. They wouldn’t let the young man on the air. So since they had said I
16:42had my own platform in television, I put him on television. So they erased him from the television tape and sent me
16:48another letter and said, “You cannot bring this up. You’re not to discuss the radio station.” So I checked with an
16:54attorney and the attorney said, “That means that uh in their interpretation
17:00for them to beat you with chains and for you to go on the air and if I someone in the audience says, “What is that scar?”
17:05You say, “They hit me with a chain.” That’s term disparaging by them. You have a right to express yourself under
17:12an FCC license granted to Channel 11. as long as you don’t disparage them. So I
17:17went on the next week and I said that tape was erased. The young man was on there. So they erased that tape and they
17:23sent me another letter and they said if you mention anyone at the station by name or by title or refer to the fact
17:29that you have a radio program, you will be fired. That day I was in the office
17:35and Garrison called me from New Orleans and he said, “I have an exclusive for you to break on the air. I have
17:40eyewitnesses placing Ruby Oswald and Shaw together in Baton Rouge. Eyeball
17:46witnesses. So I went on the air and I told that on the air and I mentioned about three
17:52minutes about uh the radio program which I isolated so
17:58that if it was cut out they could see the rest of the show which was funny. It was a good show. Biff Rose was on, Phil
18:04Oaks was on, Hamilton Camp, Joyce Jameson. They erased the entire tape and
18:09sent me a letter the next morning firing me for insubordination in mid-contract
18:14at a time when they owed me $83,000. So that’s a capriccious form of behavior
18:20you might think for uh a large organization. But they saw fit to do that over this
18:28issue. They saw fit not even to call me in. And I want to make a a a point here that this is not capitalism is you know
18:35shape up or ship out. This is the way we do things. This is a different form. No one came to me and said, “Shape up.”
18:41That it was just over. No one spoke to me. Nobody. Just the vast silence. My
18:48guest is Mort Saul. And we’ll continue with much more. All right. So, here you
18:53are uh at KTV and KAC with incredibly high ratings. Uh 31,000 letters received
19:00in a period of 3 days. And having turned Los Angeles on to the obviously the most important issue of the day and you are
19:06fired, you are through. What was it like after that, Mark? Did you start to go around and look for other jobs right
19:11away? You see, KTTV, this pending legal action, I’m going to the union for arbitration through AFRA, which I’m a
19:19member and have been for 15 years to settle this. So, I’m not saying there’s a correlation between what I said about
19:26the assassination and uh what happened there, but uh the assassination is not
19:33my first experience at twisting the arm of the establishment, and it’s not my first experience at being threatened or
19:40paying for it. I’m the same guy who was on the cover of Time magazine August 8th, 1960. I’m the same guy who MCed the
19:47Academy Awards with Lawrence Olivier, Bob Hope, Jerry Lewis, and Tony Randall in 1960.
19:54And I’m the same guy that had my own show on NBC a few years ago. I’m the same guy that’s been under contract to
20:00all three networks. Now, what was the attitude? You know, we have to use a very broad canvas, if not a broad brush
20:08here, to see what the attitude is here. I am submitted to network shows at the
20:13same time because I have a national reputation. When I was submitted to the Dean Martin
20:18show, the agent was said, “Oh, no, not that guy. Never.” Because he’s making
20:23speeches and he’s gone crazy on that subject. I’ve gone crazy. It’s only a
20:29couple of years that they were selling Kennedy to me. They thought I was for Stevenson.
20:35That’s because I like to know who I’m voting for. And I confess when I meet a stranger. I don’t condemn him, but I ask
20:41who he is before I vote for him. They uh that happened to me repeatedly. And of
20:47course, you know, I I saw the whole liberal syndrome. I tried to call it the way I saw it in Los Angeles. And there
20:54were many subjects on that program. And while I want to stay with the assassination tonight, I just briefly uh
21:01want to point out that everybody knows who they are and that since uh God put
21:07me into the role of holding the mirror up to Dracula, who knows very well what he looks like. Anyway, uh they didn’t
21:15stand up to be counted when they were needed. I made the appeal. I stood up
21:20there and I said, ‘You know who you are and you know the fight I’m in. What’s at stake is America in essence. That’s the
21:28reason that when Bud Schelberg went to Watts and sold the television show off it or two and the articles to Playboy, I
21:35pointed out that Bud Schulberg knows better before he knew the history of the Negro people. He knew the history of the Jewish people and he knew the history of
21:41the unamerican activities committee and that we must all face ourselves. Now, that wasn’t pleasant for everybody, but
21:47we had to say it on the air. I talked about all the ex-left in Hollywood and what they had become since they joined
21:54the establishment. They hadn’t become right. They hadn’t become anything. They had become Unix. And I I wanted to
21:59remind them and ask them if it was worth the price because as Garrison says in the FA legend, the price is you. I
22:05pointed that out. I pointed out that the country is going down the tube because we’re not we have no hope. We have no
22:11optimism as we had under Kennedy and we’re trying to rationalize a war. I pointed out, as unpopular as it may
22:17sound, that there’s a vast store of Jewish people in this city who have turned their back on their commitment,
22:23which is survival, you know, who have gone uh who have gone the other way and
22:28uh who will give Ronald Reagan a standing reception uh a standing ovation that is in Hollywood Bowl because he
22:35says the right things uh about Israel. uh you know and well I suppose everybody will including Omar Sharif and Danny
22:42Thomas the only two Arabs in the in the show business community but the as hard as as it is going down again we have to
22:48point out that uh the Jewish people and I know some here who even fled from Hitler
22:55uh come full circle now and not only rationalize the war in Vietnam but make the same error they made in Germany that
23:02if they have enough money they will buy out. Garrison is painting a picture of a neo-Nazi group. And as Jack Ruby raved
23:09on toward the end in the jail, I helped them because it was a money deal. But I see I’m helping people who will burn my
23:15people. There are Jewish elements, Jewish liberal elements that turned
23:20their back on the president. And they know better. And I know some people out here and they’re in this industry and
23:26they’ve got their answer to me is a large blue pencil drawn through my name in case I can get a job. And imagine
23:34that all they think they can do to a man in America is take away his right to make a living. In between, of course,
23:41you’ve got uh all the liberals with their knees knocking looking the other way. I’d say something about the issue
23:47if I knew anything about it, but I don’t know. Well, I’m sure that they do. In fact, those who are most fearful are
23:54those who come up with the worst conjecture. Yes, I found myself unemployable
24:01completely. Completely. You couldn’t get a job anywhere. Yeah, they nowhere. You know what would happen when your agents
24:06would call nightclubs, TV stations. What would happen is America is not Germany
24:11and it’s not well well enough organized. So sometimes guys fall in the trap and a guy would call you and he’d offer you a
24:17job on Friday and by the time he’d get back to you on Tuesday, he would have changed his mind. What happened in the
24:23interim, Mort? Who would make the telephone calls to the booking agents? Well, I did and uh then after a while uh
24:31I uh didn’t and No, I mean who spoke with the booking agents and the people
24:36who could give you employment and say don’t touch Saul. Oh. Oh, you mean from the other end? Yeah. Well, uh several
24:43people. Uh vice president of a network here in this city and there are only three said to my agent if I try to use
24:51Mort, he said whom I respect, I’ll lose my job. That’s a man with seniority, I
24:56might add, at the network. Um, vice president of uh leading motion picture
25:04tele and television studio here said, “Don’t ever mention his name in this office.”
25:09That offended. They’re that offended by it. Who now were they functioning independently, Mark, because of their
25:15own hang-ups or was somebody actually like who threatened this the the the vice president of the network? Well, you
25:20don’t know because you know you don’t know. It’s hard to be both. As I told you the other night, a corpse and a
25:26detective, too. 15% of this puzzle is missing because people won’t come out of the bushes and say, they won’t come out
25:32of the shadows and say, “We are conspirators.” I don’t believe that the government calls everybody. I think that
25:38people are sufficiently corrupt and enjoy a mutuality of interest u that that they will behave as they do. One of
25:45the leading television commentators said to me when I said, “What are you going to do about the Garrison case?” He said, “Well, I’m going to stay away from him.”
25:52He told me that openly. that that would be his course. That would be his fearless course in informing the
25:57American people of who killed their president. Um I uh the best way of
26:02course was for everybody to call me paranoic and to uh look the other way. And I’ve had some uh pretty important uh
26:10people tell me that because what can they do? Can they uh admit again that this is not the best uh of all possible
26:17worlds because then they might have to do a patch. they might have to do a repair job and they’re not they’re not
26:22prepared sufficiently to even sweep the room and take care of it. Uh be
26:27custodians of the room hygienically uh let alone repaper the walls and make
26:32some improvements on the property. Um they are a by and large a gutless breed.
26:38There are several levels here in Hollywood. There’s the level of uh I’m not talented. He’s having bad luck. It
26:45might rub off on me and I’ll really be in trouble. I better keep away. the straight opportunism. But there’s some
26:50remarks that are hard to answer. There’s Bill Cosby who said, “I have a wife and kids. I can’t be seen with him.” Wow.
26:57How’s that? How’s that quote? A wife and kids. And I addressed my remarks to him one week. I’d like I said, I’d like to
27:02know what you’re going to leave your wife and kids. What are you going to leave your kids in America? We have America. That’s all we have. That’s all
27:11we have. And the signs are uh that we are losing her. More. What about your
27:18friends? What happened with them? Your close friends. People Well, they vanished. I know they’re around cuz I go to see them in pictures all the time,
27:25but I’m glad they’re still available to me on film because my memories are treasured. Really? Was it really like
27:31that? I mean, right now, a social ostrich. What kind What friends do I have now? Yeah. How many people could you call now and say, “Hey, man. I’d
27:37like to get together with you and rap.” You know? Well, uh,
27:42you’re the newest. Uh, I would say uh Mark Lane,
27:48Jim Garrison, uh Maggie Field, and uh Enrico Banduchi at the Hungry
27:56Eye. I’m in pretty good company. And man, that’s I would, you know, I wouldn’t go back for anything. Last
28:03week, uh I was here negotiating for something and I I uh had to go out to
28:08dinner. Had to do the thing. Had to go back, you know, and I went out went out for dinner. And it was very interesting.
28:15I walked into a restaurant in Beverly Hills and you all have to, you know, take a flight of fancy with me. Now you got to remember the breed uh which I
28:22was. I came down the pike and I was a great threat 1956 57 and they denied me
28:28and then then of course I I made it stick with the people. So then they try to absorb you and I was everywhere. You
28:34know when Paul Newman put his footprints in cemented Gromish Chinese I am seated for television. He asked me to. I’m that
28:41guy. I’m the guy. I made pictures and I did television shows and I addressed people at campuses. Okay.
28:48I uh so I went to dinner and uh I uh walked into
28:54uh a Beverly Hills restaurant and my former manager was there who still
29:00handles the affairs of Peter Lofford. He’s a guy who once threatened me with never working again in America. Peter
29:05Lford if I did both of them if I didn’t stop kidding President Kennedy. They loved him. You see, uh, they also, these
29:12same people then change gloves from the left hand to the right hand and see that you continue not to work for asking who
29:19killed him. President Kennedy, you know, is very lucky that I can be objective,
29:24as his memory is, that I can be objective about it. I didn’t love him, so I can give full time to finding out
29:29who did him in. Fantastic. You knew him, didn’t you? When I Yes, I did. And I wrote for him for 19 months. And uh, I
29:37said that on KAC. Senator Kennedy, as I understand it, asked Mr. Vaughn if I ever claimed that. And Mr. Vaughn said
29:44with with the customary courage, I don’t know what he said. Well, I said it. In fact, Senator Kennedy’s had the
29:49opportunity to ask me. And for those of you who can’t get a framework on this, you must remember that I go into the
29:55White House at will. I repeat to you, at will. I ate with Senator Kennedy last
30:01May and I ate with Lynden Johnson the May before that. And I was in Washington
30:06for 5 days in July. I went to the White House, three of them. I walked through the gate. They know me. They know me.
30:14And I refuse to go away. I’m like a very persistent epidemic. Now, back to the point. So, I walked into uh well, it’s
30:20interesting in light of uh in light of having that access and then doing a local television show and having people
30:28running for Congress, using me me in the most opportunistic vein. If nothing
30:33else, they should not think that I’m a fool and they should not think I’m ambitious on the level of a House of
30:38Representatives. I’ve rejected the best, you know. So, if I’m neurotic, I’m neurotic, you know, A1, you know, zero
30:46cool. But anyway, back to back to the uh uh Yeah, and I forgot to mention I used
30:51to sit in with Senator Fulbright in the afternoon at will, whom I really dig, although I’m sure that a lot of liberals
30:56out there think he’s a racist. That’s their way. At any rate, uh, so I walked into Stephanos and I walked in with a
31:04good guy, uh, to talk some business and there sits, uh, Mr. Evans, uh, who
31:10doesn’t say anything to me. I’ve openly accused him on the air. Who is Mr. Evans? Mr. Evans, Mr. Lford’s manager. Used to be my manager. I see. Confidant
31:16of the president at a certain recreational level. And, uh, who now thinks, you know, that guy is killing
31:22himself by discussing that subject, the assassination. He’s doing himself in. He’s self-destructive. It’s a terrible
31:28thing to watch, but they watched it every Friday night as long as it was on. He’s sitting in that restaurant and
31:35people came through the door, actors who know me and know him, and they refused to speak to me during the evening. They
31:41averted their heads. There’s that much terror. And then a manager came over to me who used to handle George Maharis and
31:47she said to me, “Hey, listen. I’m not with the hate group.” And I said, “The hate group?” She said, “I don’t care what anybody says. I’ll use you. I’m
31:54going to do a picture. There might be a part for you. I don’t care what anybody says. That’s in reference to paranoia.
32:00The next night I was in a restaurant called Dominics to further conduct business, which is the great in
32:06restaurants. And uh Jim Ares came in, very jovial, good guy, but then he’s a
32:12conservative. You don’t you have nothing to fear. He couldn’t get near you because he couldn’t find your body
32:18beneath the liberals pounding it. And uh there was uh George Axelrod who used to
32:23be my friend who two years ago asked me to direct a film for him. He now says,
32:29″You used to be America’s conscience and now you’re America’s insanity.” That’s his reply to my plea to clean up the
32:37Kennedy case because it started as a toothache. It is now an abscess and eventually the patient is going to die.
32:45You have no way to get away from Jack Kennedy. you chose him and you go you
32:50rise with him as the phoenix or you go down in flame with him. Sorry folks, but that’s the deal. Now, uh I watched all
32:58that last week. Those are all those are small examples, but they’re the microcosm of the whole thing. The people
33:03who are fearful uh to talk to you, who ask you questions and who run away from
33:08you. That goes all the way down to the actors who would run into me in Carl’s Market or the Mayfair on Santa Monica at
33:142 in the morning and when it was open that late and they’d say to me, “Uh, hey, what what’s with your friend Garrison? He better get his head
33:20examined.” They’d say to me, and I’d say, in essence, this is what’s with my friend Garrison. Because the Playboy
33:26thing was in work. The interview was coming. I’d say the president uh reached
33:31a you know reached an agreement with the Soviet Union about Cuba among other things and he sent the FBI in to bust
33:38the anti-Castro Cuban exile groups training and the next day the CIA gave him a blank check to go ahead and countermanded his order and that
33:45conflict is what brought the government down. People say you’re pl you’re you’re preaching rebellion. I said we had
33:50rebellion. The government was overthrowing Dallas for all we know and then they run off into the woods and
33:56I’ve got them coming and going man. I got them boxed in both ways. If they accuse Johnson, which a lot of them want
34:02to do because they want to help Roberto into the chair, then I say there’s no evidence connecting Johnson to the case.
34:08And if there is, why are you nominating him and rationalizing the war in Vietnam? Or then they come up to me and
34:14they say, “Well, if all of this is true, aren’t you afraid?” And then I say, “No, because a lone gunman did it in Dallas
34:19and he’s long gone.” I’ve got them coming and going because they have no position. But I tell you that I knew
34:25everybody in this town or no just that I don’t see them and there is no studio
34:31open. There is no television. There’s just a vast uneasiness because they have to meet you. They have to meet you
34:37because the plan isn’t complete. Eventually you’re going to get an invitation to uh a screening or a
34:44premiere and you’ve got to meet them in the lobby. And that’s what I got when they got to begin tugging at their collars. When Garrison came out here the
34:50last time to set up this thing on Eugene Bradley when everybody thought all he was doing was sitting in a daisy. That’s
34:57what he’s doing. And I took him in the daisy and we sat in there and all the actors who said I was crazy and all the
35:04comedians, three or four of whom in rebellion could have turned the tide ran up to me and asked to meet him. They’re
35:10all on his side because he’s here. Can you imagine what’s going to happen if he wins? I’ll tell you all out there and
35:16you all know who you are what’s going to happen if he wins. First of all, we’re going to get the country back. I like that part. Yeah. But there’s going to be
35:22a terrible retribution for those of you who denied him and think that your
35:27liberal credentials will let you change hats. You know, General Smemedley Butler of the Marine Corps talked about the
35:32revolution in Nicaragua. The vast majority of peasants had no political belief and they used to wear the the uh
35:38the rebels had a red hatband and the fascists had a blue hat and most people who were smart had a hatband that was
35:44reversible. uh Garrison has charged that all the attorneys defending all the people in
35:51this case are retained by the CIA and he stands flatly on uh uh on that charge.
35:57Now the cat defending Edgar Eugene Bradley was a former FBI man, wasn’t he? I noticed that. Yeah. Yeah. As a matter
36:03of fact, I noticed that too. Uh I also the New Orleans states item pointed out this week which our papers missed here
36:10that um Dr. McIntyre, Bradley’s associate there, has been active in a
36:16draft Jay Edgar Hoover for the presidency movement. Uh, I haven’t heard anybody bring that up, you know, since
36:22uh Walter Winchell, I’d hate to see Hoover step down to the presidency, but
36:27you know, if that’s if that’s the will of the people, let it be heard. Anyway, um um as Garrison always says whenever
36:34we say this, he always says to Mark Laney, he says, “Your sarcastic remarks about the director have made my job
36:41insufferably difficult.” But at any rate, tell for let me interrupt for a
36:47second. Tell us about uh Jade Goover. Um Hoover Well, Hoover is now 73. The
36:52mandatory federal age retirement uh retirement age, I should say, is 70.
36:57Johnson waved it for him. Well, of course, everybody says uh I mean the folklore is that he has so much on
37:04everybody that uh nobody can throw him out. He’s been in office 44 years. 44
37:10years. 44 years. Which means that uh he looks upon the president as a trenchant
37:16for one thing. And as Garrison has said, he’s the finest director the bureau has ever had and uh also the only director
37:23the bureau has ever had. So that’s fantastic. Um, of course the the bureau
37:30Mark Lane says is run and most people agree as a Gustapo like organization
37:36because it reflects the views of that one man who runs it and nobody messes with him. No one ever has. All the
37:43attorneys general walk down the hall to his office. He doesn’t uh report to them. The only one that tangled with him
37:49was uh Bob Kennedy. That was about the only one. What is the relationship like between Bobby Kennedy and Jade Gahouver?
37:55isn’t very good. As a reported in Look magazine, uh when the president was killed, Hoover informed Bobby Kennedy,
38:00called him at Hickory Hill, and he said, “Your brother’s dead.” And he hung up. Um Bobby Kennedy uh wanted to make
38:07certain that he realized that uh he was the boss, as I understand it, which is certainly right. Uh along with being
38:14attorney general, by the way, as Garrison has pointed out, Robert Kennedy had the right to arrest the members of the Warren Commission as accessories
38:20after the fact and ask that they be hanged, which I do not believe he did, although I haven’t gone into the record.
38:28Um why why is Bobby Kennedy walking around with his mouth shut? I don’t know. There are several answers. One is
38:34uh that of course the best source would be him. We would have to ask him. The second is that the elements are so
38:41terroridden that they would kill him if he said anything. The third is that it was a fat calam plea and all the people
38:48in the government were then told it’ll be anarchy. You must go along for the good of your country. Um there are in
38:56other words it’ll bring the country down if uh if they know what happened. Although ironically enough the way they
39:01brought the country up they brought the country down. We now not only doubt the CIA we doubt everybody. Uh there are
39:07people who say he has a deal with the president to carry on in 1972, but I will say that he is amazingly uh he has
39:15an amazing lack of inquiry about this case. Uh when I was interviewed in Washington by Jeremy Campbell for the
39:21London Observer, it’s funny how you’re heard in America. I was interviewed in Washington by the London Observer. Then
39:26the San Francisco Chronicle picked up the story and ran it on the front page on Sunday. The front page it says, “I
39:32know who killed Kennedy,” says Saul. front page, three columns with a photo headline. Um, I never heard from Robert
39:40Kennedy about that, even to admonish me for being irresponsible. Mark Lane has never heard from him, and certainly
39:45Garrison has never heard from him. In fact, uh, there’s evidence that he’s tried to uh, bulldo the Garrison uh,
39:52investigation. Walter Sheridan is his man, as was reported to me uh, last May
39:59when Robert Kennedy was out here. It was a dinner at at which was present Pierre
40:04Salinger, Andy Williams, Milton Burl, Robert Vaughn, and Ed Guthman who used
40:11to be administrative assistant to Robert Kennedy is now the national editor of the LA Times. And you know their view on
40:17Garrison. The only time they give up that cartoon section uh they let Johnson off for a day is to go after Garrison.
40:24Guthan got up and said, “Gee, Mort’s threw in the business and it’s a shame. He committed suicide by hanging out with
40:30Garrison and Lane. First of all, I appreciate their concern for the postmortem about me and I appreciate the
40:37judgment and I’m through obviously and uh I wonder what would make them say
40:42that. I wonder why Garrison and Lane would be the enemy. They’re only acting as patriots. They’re proving that they
40:49love their president. you know, they not that he because he’s a dead president, he’s not a remembered president or
40:55spirit uh in this um uh country. Mark, do you believe Bobby Kennedy right now
41:01has a pretty good idea who killed his brother? I don’t know. I don’t have any idea.
41:07Garrison has said that there is no way that the president would not know what’s going on here, which is not to say he’s
41:12a conspirator, but no way. But I don’t know uh I don’t know how Robert Kennedy I don’t know what he knows. Have no
41:18idea. He’s uh quite enigmatic about it all. You believe right now that President Johnson has a pretty good idea
41:24who killed Kennedy. Uh President Johnson of course must he
41:32must know just from an overlap of information. He must have some information. He must know
41:38that Lee Oswald did not do it. He has to know that in order for this immense cover up to go on. So does the vice
41:45president. You’re listening to KPFK. listener supported Pacifica radio Los
41:50Angeles. So we walk up to the house, there’s a tricycle in the driveway and we knock on
41:56the door and Garrison comes to the door in his bathrobe cuz he had the flu. And I put my hand out. I said, “I just came
42:01down to shake your hand.” And he said, “I hope you’re going to do more than that.” And that was the beginning. And
42:07we sat down and we talked to him till about 4:00 in the morning. And we talked to him about everything. And he’s got a
42:14great ortoral style, you know, and he’s a true believer. He really is a in the liberal tradition of this country which
42:20some people would call a liberal hyphen conservative tradition but prizing the individual against federalism and uh uh
42:30we went there on successive nights and he brought the detectives over to meet us the guys working among whom was Bill
42:35Gervich who later defected you recall he made a statement to the press defecting after he left Robert Kennedy’s office
42:43Bill Gervich who said Clay Shaw is being railroaded and Garrison Garrison has no case was in the office and he told me
42:50with great relish how they got Klay Shaw, how Klay Shaw had come in. They asked him to come in and Garrison said,
42:56″I’m charging you with conspiracy to murder John F. Kennedy.” And Shaw said
43:01nothing. The perspiration broke out on his upper lip and he said, “I’d like to go home and consider this.” And Garrison
43:09said, “I don’t think so.” after looking at Andy Shamra, his assistant, because he knew that the guy wanted to clean out
43:16his apartment. They always know that. So, they went to the apartment. Of course, they got the whips and the chains, the executioner’s gown and the
43:22shoes in the shape of coffins, which he said was a Marty Gro costume, but of course, the shoes had never touched the sidewalk, nothing but a carpeted floor.
43:29The shoes in the shapes of of coffins. So, uh, they, uh, then Gervich told me
43:36that he was going to get Sergio Aracha Smith, another one of the Cubans who was in Dallas, whom Governor Connelly had
43:42not extradited. He was going to go down there. He said, “If we get the extradition, I want to go get him.” He said, “With great relish.” And uh, I
43:48said, “How much is involved in going into Dallas to bring a guy back?” And he said, “There’s nothing involved.” He
43:53said, “I go down there, I knock on the door, and he comes to the door and I say, I got you, I got you.” And he said,
44:00″Then we come back.” And I said, “What if he resists?” He said, “I hope so.” And we all laughed a lot. So, um, and
44:07the detectives would come in Garrison’s den, which has a bust of Burton Russell up there. And, uh, which the press
44:12doesn’t tell you. The press says to you, uh, Garrison has a picture of Napoleon.
44:18Yes, he does. But he also has a, uh, a bust of, uh, Burton Russell, and he
44:23quotes from Hamlet a lot. And you, we found out a lot of things about him. We found out that when uh when the uh the
44:30double day stores in New Orleans had uh James Baldwin’s book in other country and they seized it on the basis of uh
44:38pornography and we’re going to close uh the stores and they asked the district attorney to prosecute the case. Garrison
44:45called the guys that had the store and he said, “What are you going to do? You going to fight this?” They said, “No, we’ll just pay the fine and reopen.” He said, “You can’t do that.” And they
44:51said, “Why?” And he said, “Because next time they’ll burn your books.” And he helped them win. even though he’s the
44:56prosecuting attorney. So, we found out um a good deal about him and his
45:02character and the uh and the guys were walking in and out. A lot of the guys were voluntary because he only has a staff really of four and uh four people.
45:09Yeah. In the office. He’s got he’s got the the greatest DA’s office in the country before this case. I mean, he
45:15says he has no grey mice. They’re all lawyers who fight who are very hard to come by. Because if I wanted to say uh
45:21name a profession that’s the lowest, I would have to say the legal profession. Why do you say that? Oh, they Well, they really are the prostitutes of our time
45:28because their passion can be purchased and because uh uh the ones I’ve met are
45:34all starruck because they talk about the scales of justice, but boy, it’s no accident that she’s blindfolded and that
45:42her dress is tattered. They’re unbelievable. They are unbelievable. Anything goes. I had a lawyer out here
45:50for 10 years. When the president was killed, he used to give presents to his
45:55clients at the end of the year. I mean, he’d send you a picture or plastic glasses. And when the president was
46:01killed, he sent a card out. It said, “Because of our great loss this year, we’re going to send the money to a a
46:07donation in the sum of the gift uh to a clinic for mental health because it was a deranged person that took the life of
46:14our president.” Perfect liberalism. Um, all looking the other way. There wasn’t
46:20one member of the American Bar Association who said anything about defending Lee Harvey Oswald and there
46:26wasn’t one member of the American Civil Liberties Union that went in to defend Lee Harvey Oswald. And because as
46:31Garrison said to me in the den that night, because we lost an adversary proceeding because the law wasn’t
46:37protected by law men, then uh we lo we not only lost our president, we lost our
46:42justice, too. Mort, we we come to that point, I guess, in any discussion about this particular subject. you know, the
46:49inevitable reality that we must confront ourselves with, however difficult that might be.
46:55Who killed John F. Kennedy? Well,
47:01as far as we can tell, uh I must tell you that uh Garrison has
47:07every confidence that he’s going into court February 14th, which is a month away. Uh
47:13I um and I expect he will, but the
47:19scenario points toward a um a coalition
47:27uh of um anti-Castro Cuban exiles,
47:35oil rich psychotics. I’m quoting a district attorney in Texas, retired militarists,
47:41various voices of the right, that is at an operational level of the conspiracy and at a planning level.
47:48The Cubans were a good setup because uh they were disenchanted with the Kennedy administration
47:55and also they were lawless. You’ve got to remember that these informants who
48:00work for the CIA along the way, if you have government by hoodlam, what are you spawning? Every cop we know in LA has
48:06his contacts on Main Street or East Fifth Street. He’s got junkies and pimps and peddlers, etc., but he knows what
48:14they are and he keeps them within perspective uh to work for the greater good, as they say. The CIA keeps them on
48:20staff for 20 years and gives them a watch at the end of their service. And that’s the difference. This undercover
48:26thing of doing what you want to and countermanding orders of the president and writing blank checks and not being
48:33checked by the Congress uh spawns a government by hoodlam. That is not to say that the government u uh
48:40subsidized the assassination. We don’t know that and Garrison denies it. I said why do you say ex CIA men? He says
48:47because I can’t conceive of anybody in my government wanting to harm the president. But the point is somewhere
48:52along the line we gave up. We we gave in when the government said we know better
48:58what’s good for you than you know for yourself. That’s why,
49:03you know, the liberalism of today, you know, whether it’s Lawrence Sherman in the 28th district saying, “I’m going
49:10into the convention with a beast slate,” or Robert Vaughn saying, “The war is the
49:15aberration of of Lynden Johnson and not Robert Kennedy is puny.” Or Carl Reiner
49:22saying Dick Van Djk and I are going to host a black tie party at the Daisy for Eugene McCarthy or dissenting Democrats.
49:29This is 20 years too late, man. They’ve been drafting people like you for 20
49:35years so that eventually 435 honorable men in the Congress don’t don’t even
49:41object and nobody votes against the unamerican activities committee and nobody says anything about the war and
49:47nobody says anything about anything and nobody says anything about murder in the streets. I’ve been crying fascism.
49:54fascism. How how much success, how heady was the sensation and how intoxicated
50:00were the fascists in this country to get to a point where they thought they could go ahead with as bold a stroke as killing him in the street? Well,
50:06obviously what makes them think they can get away with it? The experience of getting away with it over the years. They tend to get power drunk because
50:13they’ve been successful. It gets crazier and crazier. They’ve extended fascism
50:19without challenge for so long in this country. A generation since 1945,
50:25the dark days, this long night started with Roosevelt’s death. You can chart the whole thing and it gets to a point
50:31where a whole generation doesn’t know any better. Robert Kennedy talks about uh ma massive retaliation and communism
50:38and capitalism and vehicular capability. You’re brought up on those terms, man.
50:43You can’t even tell when somebody is driving you anymore because it’s 20 years of madness. As much as my Jewish
50:50friends aren’t going to like it, the German people weren’t born crazy. They were made crazy by their government. They were made in the form which is most
50:57convenient to that government which is fascistic, which broke the backs of the unions. And you use anti-semitism as a
51:04dodge. Same thing is happening here. They’re trying to drive the American people crazy. And I’ll tell you something, I think they’re succeeding.
51:10There’s great evidence in the barbarism of day-to-day life and in the lack of direction and the degree of uh the lack
51:19of mental health in this country. Um and I’m not suggesting going to a psychiatrist because most of them are
51:24sellouts too. Sad to say because they know better, but all they want to do is repair you and get you back on the line
51:31to keep punching out Mustang frames. Uh that’s the that’s the trouble. Look what
51:36you have here. FDR dies. What was the plan? To make Germany an occupied
51:42agricultural state. But what happens afterwards? Truman goes into office and
51:48he forms the defense department, the Marshall Plan. He aids the fascists in
51:53the hills of Greece to stop communism. He expand he founds the CIA in 1947. He
52:00gives Jay Ed Garoover a blank check and they go ahead with the unamerican activities committee and they start the
52:06great witch hunts and McCarthy comes on and two bombs on the Japanese people
52:11civilian areas atomic bombs and the Korean war the bullstroke anti-communism
52:18we will not tolerate it uh anywhere the Truman doctrine outside the western hemisphere and uh Russia and Korea and
52:28uh China and Vietnam and Santa Domingo. You can see it step
52:33for step. 22 years of fascism. So your country becomes a colonial power. Now of
52:41course we’re not made for that because that’s not our tradition. So that’s the conflict. That’s why everybody is hung
52:46up and they say, “Well, why do the kids look so weird?” Because you’re driving their body in one direction, their head
52:51is going in another. They’re being pulled apart. It’s the same as taking a young man in this country and tying a
52:57stallion to one leg and one arm each side and pulling in in opposing directions. We’re not made for it. We
53:04weren’t measured for an SS suit. Man, if I was going to form a fascist state, I would go to the Germans. They’re set up
53:10for it. You know, it’s like Sinatra told me, you’re going to buy buy a record company. Don’t found one. He bought one
53:16that was set up already. You have to be efficient. He had a commitment, too, by the way. Sinatra. Yeah. The house I live
53:22in. I don’t hear that from him anymore. I don’t hear from anybody anymore. Where
53:28are all of you or don’t you care? Because I don’t know where you’re going to live. You know, you can only go to
53:34make a movie in England for 3 months. That’s almost closed. Where are you going to go? You can’t hide in
53:39Switzerland. You know, you are an American. You’re not going to feel that good. Everybody says, “Well, if you got enough money, you’ll feel good
53:44anywhere.” It’s really not true. There isn’t anything quite like America. And especially if you’re an American, you’re
53:51really going to miss it. I know you take it for granted, but uh you’re uh going to miss it. You’re going to miss uh you
53:57know the sun coming up in the morning. You don’t think so until you’re in the Holocaust. And of course, it’s too late.
54:03But to get back uh to your question and to stop theorizing for a while, um this
54:09uh this group uh of ex neonazis who would uh uh have brought us fascism
54:17in the name of national security. The facts on who shot the president are in the archives because of national
54:23security. Everything is national security. The CIA is national security. The FBI is national security. And uh
54:30meanwhile, you don’t recognize your own country. Look what we have here. Think of America as a body. You have uh and
54:37think of the pressure points in the first aid class. Mark Lane is saying to you, I’ve got his uh pulse on a left arm
54:44and he has an accelerated pulse and Jim Garrison’s got the right arm and he says it. Mario Savio is uh up there by his
54:51right temple and he says it and Stokeley Carmichael is down by his left ankle and he says it and Adam Powell says it in
54:58his own way. Everybody tells them and Dylan tells them and none of these guys
55:04know each other. They don’t hang out together as the saying goes. They say the same thing. They have that in
55:10common. The patient has a high fever and an accelerated pulse and I can’t find anybody who cares about this guy. They
55:16talk about heart transplants. So what happened to Mike Casperic? They don’t care. What happened to America? That’s
55:22what it’s all about. You don’t have to love your parents. I’m not demanding that. Miss Liberty, what about it? What
55:27about the pursuit of the American dream? An awful lot of good men died so that a
55:33good many of you can sit out there and think about whether you want to sell out or not. I’m worried that it’s too late
55:41for you to sell in. That’s what really terrifies me. I don’t know whether we’re over the hill or not. Naturally, I’m
55:47going to get up tomorrow and go after it the same way the bell rings. You come out of your corner swinging because we got to keep trying because this is all
55:52we have. But it is evident, you know, nobody has to be naive about the
55:58elements in this country. Why did I indict liberals earlier, the so-called social democrats of my routines when I
56:04say the far right? Because there aren’t enough evil men in this country. Their army, they are the generals, but the
56:10privates in their army, the vast ranks of the unwashed are the liberals. It is.
56:16In other words, evil men can only do evil because of the indifference of good men, to paraphrase a philosopher. And
56:22that’s what it is. The road to fascism was paved with those liberal bricks. Every young man who is headed for the
56:27left was castrated by a good liberal who wants him to fit in. And when you [ __ ] a gun and put it at the temple of a
56:33liberal, he signs the petition on the right, not on the left. There is no left in America. There is no dissension. A
56:40few university professors. How many people came up to you and said, “Uh, it’s a terrible thing what happened to
56:45Dr. Spock. They they’re just glad it didn’t happen to them, right? The only reason they’re talking about Vietnam is
56:51because we’re talking about Kennedy.” I know where they’re at. They have sold us
56:57out. That’s really what they’ve done. They’ve sold out a generation. Every time you meet a guy 40, you have a right
57:04to spit in his face because he’s cast a shadow over your future.
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